Can Non-Abrahamics and Abrahamics be from same God?

[TransmutingSoul]

Is that Baha'i teaching or your personal belief?

In a prayer by Abdul'baha we can see what was mentioned by @loverofhumanity

"O Divine Providence! This assemblage is composed of Thy friends who are attracted to Thy beauty and are set ablaze by the fire of Thy love. Turn these souls into heavenly angels, resuscitate them through the breath of Thy Holy Spirit, grant them eloquent tongues and resolute hearts, bestow upon them heavenly power and merciful susceptibilities, cause them to become the promulgators of the oneness of mankind and the cause of love and concord in the world of humanity, so that the perilous darkness of ignorant prejudice may vanish through the light of the Sun of Truth, this dreary world may become illumined, this material realm may absorb the rays of the world of spirit, these different colors may merge into one color and the melody of praise may rise to the kingdom of Thy sanctity.
Verily, Thou art the Omnipotent, and the Almighty! —‘Abdu’l-Bahá

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes.

How do you worship?

 

[ManSinha]

In His mystical composition of the journey of the soul the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys addressed to Sufi mystics Baha’u’llah says..

It is known to thine eminence that all the variations which the wayfarer in the stages of his journey beholdeth in the realms of being proceed from his own vision. We shall give an example of this, that the meaning may become fully clear.

Consider the visible sun: Although it shineth with the same radiance upon all existence, and at the behest of the Lord of Revelation bestoweth light on all things, yet in each place it becometh manifest and sheddeth its bounty according to the potentialities of that place. For instance, in a mirror it reflecteth its own disk and shape, and this is due to the clarity of the mirror itself; through a crystal it maketh fire to appear; and in other things it showeth only the effect of its shining, but not its full disk. And yet, through that effect, by the command of the Creator it traineth each thing according to the capacity of that thing, even as thou dost observe.

In like manner, colours become visible in each object according to its nature. For instance, in a yellow glass the rays shine yellow; in a white glass they are white; and in a red glass red rays are visible.

These variations proceed from the object itself, not from the light.

And if a place be shut away from the light, as by walls and a roof, it will be entirely bereft of the light of the sun and deprived of its rays.


The Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys
Bahá’u’lláh

That is beautiful imagery but the 10th Master was down to the point - I shall provide two quotes from two different compositions -

 

[loverofhumanity]

That is beautiful imagery but the 10th Master was down to the point - I shall provide two quotes from two different compositions -

View attachment 27501

View attachment 27502

Very profound words.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That's just like saying you don't proselytize. Saying something doesn't mean you don't do it. The core belief is that Baha'u'llah is the prophet for this age. The core belief of 'progressive revelation' indicates you feel you're more progressive than others. Here, specifically, it was about addressing divorce. There is also a fairly constant stream about 'virtues'. So yes, I would disagree on that, but you already knew I would.

Baha'is use doublespeak a lot. I'm used to it.

The Bahais believe Bahaullah is a manifestation of God, and has revealed the most recent guidance for humanity living in our time.
This is different than individually claiming to be a perfect follower of Bahaullah. Abdulbaha said, there could be other people who have not even heard of Bahaullah, but their actions be better than someone who calls himself Bahai. So, we cannot just judge Bahais or non-bahais individually, simply by their religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is no need to tell other people at all. Just practice what Baha'u'llah taught you. That's the point.

That's exactly the point. Any religion that has it's people go out and tell people how wonderful it is and that they should join... is going to run into the hypocrisy problem. With Christians and Baha'is often times is was the young people that would be sent out on "witnessing" or "teaching" projects. When some of those young people left the religion and starting living "worldly" it kind of blows their testimony. Even worse, is when they stayed in the religion and started living worldly.

 

[CG Didymus]

It was Christains in the 1800' that came up with the exact year using prophecy from Daniel.

To me once one knows about the Message given in 1844/1260 a whole truckload becomes more obvious.

Mathimatically how is it possible for a person to fulfill the given Prophecy?

The Bible says He will come from the East, thus we can eliminate all that claim a Message that did not come to the Holy Place from the direction of the East.

The list is huge, the probability factor an impossible number. Maybe look at it in that way?

If it is likely someone could fulfill prophecy by mere chance with a number 10 to the power of 60, then it most likely it was not chance.

Regards Tony

All the religions have lots of things that are supposed to happen before the promised one returns. In those things the Baha'i interpretation/explanation isn't all that good. Like all the things in the Book of Revelation. The lamb that was slain is The Bab? The beasts and the dragons are the Umayyads and the Abbasids? The two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali? The three woes are Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah? And then one of the Baha'i said something about the "tribulation" and "Armageddon"? I think he connected it to WWI? But I thought the return is supposed to happen after those things, not before? So I'm still listening. Oh, and by my math, one vague or out of context prophecy adds up to nothing.

Even with the 1844, long ago I looked at how William Miller arrived at that date and it wasn't the same as how Baha'is arrive at it. But, that and the Baha'i calculation of how the Yugas from Hinduism, that talk about thousands and thousands of years, also add up to the Baha'i revelation do nothing but give me a headache. Too many things mean this, plus if you add that, then subtract something else and presto... you get 1844. Sure, except it seems like everybody can make the numbers add up to anything they want. Even your 1260 you force to mean whatever you need it to mean. Like the start of a beast you revert back to 621AD to start you calculation, but the Beast in question wasn't there in 621AD. This I believe was dealing with the Umayyads. They got into power way later than 621AD. So that's not math, that's manipulation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

you get 1844. Sure, except it seems like everybody can make the numbers add up to anything they want. Even your 1260 you force to mean

I would consider we do not have to force anything. It was not Baha'i that came up with 1844. It was also not the Baha'i that came up with the year for the day intepretation.

It is not Baha'i that started and can change the Muslim calender, which means the year AD1844 is also the year AH1260

That the Bible says some one will have power to give prophecy for 1260days (which we know is years)

It was the year 1844/1260 when the Bab declared in Persia amongst the Muslims.

Thus we accept the calculation of William Miller as correct or not. We now also have the bonus that 1260 mentioned in Daniel and Revelation is also 1844. It is a starting point and all the rest falls into place only when we accept that it is Muhammad that is foretold in the Bible by some of the 1260 references.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's exactly the point. Any religion that has it's people go out and tell people how wonderful it is and that they should join... is going to run into the hypocrisy problem. With Christians and Baha'is often times is was the young people that would be sent out on "witnessing" or "teaching" projects. When some of those young people left the religion and starting living "worldly" it kind of blows their testimony. Even worse, is when they stayed in the religion and started living worldly.

This is what Baha'u'llah offered;

"We have said: ‘My imprisonment doeth Me no harm, nor do the things that have befallen Me at the hands of My enemies. That which harmeth Me is the conduct of my loved ones who, though they bear My name, yet commit that which maketh My heart and My pen to lament.’ Such utterances as these have again and again been revealed, yet the heedless have failed to profit thereby, since they are captive to their own evil passions and corrupt desires. Beseech thou the One true God that He may enable everyone to repent and return unto Him. So long as one’s nature yieldeth unto evil passions, crime and transgression will prevail. We cherish the hope that the hand of divine power and the outpouring of heavenly blessings may sustain all men, may attire them with the vesture of forgiveness and bounty and guard them against that which would harm His Cause among His servants. He is, in truth, the Potent, the All-Powerful, and He is the Ever-Forgiving, the Merciful."

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

All the religions worship something. I believe it is the same Reality but each calls it by a different name and worships in a different manner according to his custom and culture.

I don’t believe it can be proven that it is not the same God otherwise each bring forward his god so we can differentiate between them. As it is an inner, spiritual experience I believe it is the same aspiration in all of us as we are all human and have the same characteristics so worship and the reality we worship is no different inwardly just outwardly in the way we express it.

Hindus have temples, Buddhists have pagodas, Jews - synagogues, Christians - churches, Muslims - mosques and Baha’is Houses of Worship. Different designs but all aspiring to the same inner reality just perceived differently.

It’s like we each look at the sun through different coloured glasses . Through red glasses it appears red, through blue it seems to be blue, and thru green glasses the sun is green. And I believe it is the one and same reality and I don’t believe that can be disproven.

If we were watching a Sci-fi movie and one of the characters described his planet as having red dirt and no atmosphere and no oceans, but having one sun and the movie was named "Life on Mars", then yes, we are probably talking about the same sun, but we're not talking about being on the same planet.

Now the other character's planet has lots of water and plants, lots of different animals and mountains and valleys, farm land and great cities, we might think he's talking about Earth. But then he says that his planet revolves around three suns. By what he describes, that is not our sun and therefore not are planet either. But plenty of similarities.

The three in one God of Christianity is not the same God of the Muslims and Baha'is. Or, how about Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma... how are they described? Are they the same as the God of Israel that the Jews believe in? You remember that God? He's the one that told the Jews that all the other religions of the people around them, including the Egyptians, Romans and Greeks, all worshipped false gods. Those gods in those religions weren't real... but they had similarities to the real God, like all-powerful, all-knowing and those kind of things.

 

[loverofhumanity]

All the religions have lots of things that are supposed to happen before the promised one returns. In those things the Baha'i interpretation/explanation isn't all that good. Like all the things in the Book of Revelation. The lamb that was slain is The Bab? The beasts and the dragons are the Umayyads and the Abbasids? The two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali? The three woes are Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah? And then one of the Baha'i said something about the "tribulation" and "Armageddon"? I think he connected it to WWI? But I thought the return is supposed to happen after those things, not before? So I'm still listening. Oh, and by my math, one vague or out of context prophecy adds up to nothing.

Even with the 1844, long ago I looked at how William Miller arrived at that date and it wasn't the same as how Baha'is arrive at it. But, that and the Baha'i calculation of how the Yugas from Hinduism, that talk about thousands and thousands of years, also add up to the Baha'i revelation do nothing but give me a headache. Too many things mean this, plus if you add that, then subtract something else and presto... you get 1844. Sure, except it seems like everybody can make the numbers add up to anything they want. Even your 1260 you force to mean whatever you need it to mean. Like the start of a beast you revert back to 621AD to start you calculation, but the Beast in question wasn't there in 621AD. This I believe was dealing with the Umayyads. They got into power way later than 621AD. So that's not math, that's manipulation.

The numbers cannot be manipulated to mean just anything. The year 1260 of the Muslim calendar is in fact 1844 which not only was proven by Miller but if you go to any Muslim conversion website and type in the year 1260 you get 1844 which the Bible predicted with stunning accuracy.

Hijri Gregorian Converter by IslamiCity.org - Most Beautiful Hijri Converter on the Web - IslamiCity

Baha’u’llah has succeeded where all others have failed. He has united Jews Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, Zoroastrians, Christians, Babis, the different races, nationalities and cultures into one peaceful and united world community.

Where is peace and unity in this world? From the world wars to Vietnam, Sri, Lanka, Cambodia, Indian and Pakistan, the Koreas, Syria, the Iran Iraq war Muslim against Muslim, Northern Ireland catholic against Protestant, African wars, apartheid, Burmese Buddhists razing the villages of the Rohinga in Myanmar, South American conflicts. Lebanese civil war, Israel and Palestine, attack on WTC, Afghanistan, Ukraine and Russia, terrorism. The Jews say Christ is a false messiah, Christians say Muhammad is an imposter and each religion says the other Proohets are false claiming only it’s own Teacher is true.

Not even a semblance of peace just war after war while the Baha’i World Community which comprises all these races, nations and religions lives in peace.

Baha’u’llah, despite being in chains and an exiled Prisoner for 40 years has succeeded in uniting a cross section of former conflicting races, creeds and nationalities into one peaceful world community! What an astounding accomplishment in a world beset by disunity.

Baha’u’llah teaches we are all ‘ the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch’ and that ‘the world is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’. He says all the Universal Educators are true and so Baha’is accept Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Christ, Moses and the Bab all as equal.

“If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendour”

The Book of Certitude
Bahá’u’lláh

These beautiful teachings asking us to see each and all as citizens of one homeland, Mother Earth, to accept all the Divine Educators as equals is a refreshing draught in an age of conflict, disunity and violence. Baha’u’llah, through these teachings seeks to bring in a Golden Age which represents Ahimsa to the Hindus, Nirvana to the Buddhists, the Kingdom of God on earth to the Christians and the Abode of Peace (Paradise) to Muslims, the reconciliation of races, religions and nations leading to a Golden Age.

And God calls unto the Abode of Peace, (Quran 10:25)

The Abode Of Peace is the old name given to Baghdad.

 

[CG Didymus]

I don’t understand why you’re bringing satanists into it as I’m saying that there is only one God. The God of love.

The different religions such as the major religions worship God. None of them worship satan or demons.

Can you see God the same way you see the Sun? No, so people can talk about invisible mystical, spiritual things and not be talking about the same thing. Their concept of God and gods don't have to be and aren't all the same. If the reality is that there is only one God, and at some time it become clear and evident who and what this God was, then those that had the wrong concepts could say, "Oh, all the time we thought God was different. Oops, now we know."

If one religion says that God created souls/spirits that reincarnate. That isn't the same as a religion that says that people have one life, and those that don't believe in God the Son will be cast into a lake of fire with all the evil spirit beings. If God didn't do those things and isn't going to do those things, then both those religions aren't talking about the real God. They're talking about a deity they made up. But, if one of those things does happen, then that deity was the right one and the other is the false one.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If we were watching a Sci-fi movie and one of the characters described his planet as having red dirt and no atmosphere and no oceans, but having one sun and the movie was named "Life on Mars", then yes, we are probably talking about the same sun, but we're not talking about being on the same planet.

Now the other character's planet has lots of water and plants, lots of different animals and mountains and valleys, farm land and great cities, we might think he's talking about Earth. But then he says that his planet revolves around three suns. By what he describes, that is not our sun and therefore not are planet either. But plenty of similarities.

The three in one God of Christianity is not the same God of the Muslims and Baha'is. Or, how about Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma... how are they described? Are they the same as the God of Israel that the Jews believe in? You remember that God? He's the one that told the Jews that all the other religions of the people around them, including the Egyptians, Romans and Greeks, all worshipped false gods. Those gods in those religions weren't real... but they had similarities to the real God, like all-powerful, all-knowing and those kind of things.

But we’re not on other worlds. We all,live on one world where there is one sun and we are all of one human race. Even the one sun in the sky speaks of oneness.

And oneness is reflected throughout all created things. No two grains of sand are identical. No two grains are the exact same. and of all the billions of people on this planet none are exactly identical. All reflect the oneness of God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Can you see God the same way you see the Sun? No, so people can talk about invisible mystical, spiritual things and not be talking about the same thing. Their concept of God and gods don't have to be and aren't all the same. If the reality is that there is only one God, and at some time it become clear and evident who and what this God was, then those that had the wrong concepts could say, "Oh, all the time we thought God was different. Oops, now we know."

If one religion says that God created souls/spirits that reincarnate. That isn't the same as a religion that says that people have one life, and those that don't believe in God the Son will be cast into a lake of fire with all the evil spirit beings. If God didn't do those things and isn't going to do those things, then both those religions aren't talking about the real God. They're talking about a deity they made up. But, if one of those things does happen, then that deity was the right one and the other is the false one.

We all have finite minds that are prone to error. I believe only the Manifestations of God have perfect knowledge, error free, and from time to time They take human form and explain to us what is true. They possess true knowledge while our knowledge is limited. God is All Knowing while we know very little.

 

[CG Didymus]

The numbers cannot be manipulated to mean just anything. The year 1260 of the Muslim calendar is in fact 1844 which not only was proven by Miller but if you go to any Muslim conversion website and type in the year 1260 you get 1844 which the Bible predicted with stunning accuracy.

Hijri Gregorian Converter by IslamiCity.org - Most Beautiful Hijri Converter on the Web - IslamiCity...

The Bab, the young Herald of the Baha’i Faith and the Founder of its revolutionary predecessor the Babi Faith, declared his mission on May 22, 1844

The core of the Millerite doctrine was the 2,300 evenings and mornings from Daniel 8:14... the 2,300 evenings and mornings were interpreted as 2,300 years. This was supposed to be the period of time between the order of the reconstruction of the Temple and the moment when Jesus Christ would return to the earth... The order of the reconstruction of the Temple was given by Artaxerxe I of Persia to the Jewish scribe Ezra in the seventh year of reign, which corresponds to 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-26). Through calculations, backed by extensive biblical and historical interpretations, Miller concluded that 1843 was the year of the “cleansing of the sanctuary” (Daniel 8:14) – a metaphor for the purification of the earth through fire and the Second Coming of Christ. The first calculations pinpointed the exact date of March 21, 1843.​

Oops, a year off... What happened? Apparently, Miller keep adjusting the date and next said it would be between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Then, April 18, 1844 based on the Karaite Jewish calendar (as opposed to the Rabbinic calendar). Then he adjusted it again to October 22, 1844. So being close is good enough?

Then the "stunning" accuracy with the other prophecy? 1260 years added to the start of the Umayyads does not add up to 1844. Baha'is go back to 621AD the Hejira. This is the only date that works, but Baha'i use it no matter what the Biblical context is. That is manipulation. Plus, Baha'is add 5 years to the 661AD start of the Umayyads to get to the 666 mark of the Beast prophecy. Which, to me, isn't talking about a date at all but is a "mark" or "number" of the Beast. And, Baha'is don't apply the 666 to the right Umayyad leader. So even if it was a date, Baha's are still wrong on who it refers to. So, no, no, no, that is not "stunning" accuracy. But, almost, close enough accuracy.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oops, a year off... What happened? Apparently, Miller keep adjusting the date and next said it would be between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Then, April 18, 1844 based on the Karaite Jewish calendar (as opposed to the Rabbinic calendar). Then he adjusted it again to October 22, 1844. So being close is good enough?

That was because there is no year Zero, they corrected that and that is why 1844 became the firm year, even until this day.

Remember the Bibe says we do not know the day or the hour, thus every day and every hour of that year should have been scrutinized..the issue was they had expectations of how the return was to happen. God doeth as He Willeth.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Then the "stunning" accuracy with the other prophecy? 1260 years added to the start of the Umayyads does not add up to 1844.

It does not have to add up. The Babs Message abrogated Islam and made all things New. Thus the Faith of Muhammad was abrogated in the year 1260, which was also 1844.

Prophecy clearly fulfilled.

I see the future will be amazed how we kept refuting this could be so, it is the most clearest prophecy given to date, confirmed by a previous faith.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Bab, the young Herald of the Baha’i Faith and the Founder of its revolutionary predecessor the Babi Faith, declared his mission on May 22, 1844

The core of the Millerite doctrine was the 2,300 evenings and mornings from Daniel 8:14... the 2,300 evenings and mornings were interpreted as 2,300 years. This was supposed to be the period of time between the order of the reconstruction of the Temple and the moment when Jesus Christ would return to the earth... The order of the reconstruction of the Temple was given by Artaxerxe I of Persia to the Jewish scribe Ezra in the seventh year of reign, which corresponds to 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-26). Through calculations, backed by extensive biblical and historical interpretations, Miller concluded that 1843 was the year of the “cleansing of the sanctuary” (Daniel 8:14) – a metaphor for the purification of the earth through fire and the Second Coming of Christ. The first calculations pinpointed the exact date of March 21, 1843.​

Oops, a year off... What happened? Apparently, Miller keep adjusting the date and next said it would be between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Then, April 18, 1844 based on the Karaite Jewish calendar (as opposed to the Rabbinic calendar). Then he adjusted it again to October 22, 1844. So being close is good enough?

Then the "stunning" accuracy with the other prophecy? 1260 years added to the start of the Umayyads does not add up to 1844. Baha'is go back to 621AD the Hejira. This is the only date that works, but Baha'i use it no matter what the Biblical context is. That is manipulation. Plus, Baha'is add 5 years to the 661AD start of the Umayyads to get to the 666 mark of the Beast prophecy. Which, to me, isn't talking about a date at all but is a "mark" or "number" of the Beast. And, Baha'is don't apply the 666 to the right Umayyad leader. So even if it was a date, Baha's are still wrong on who it refers to. So, no, no, no, that is not "stunning" accuracy. But, almost, close enough accuracy.

The prophecy regarding the 1260 years in Revelation ch11 refers to the Islamic year when the appearance of the Promised One will take place. The year 1260 of the Muslim calendar is the year 1844 of the Christian calendar, the exact year of the appearance of the Bab.

 

[Desert Snake]

How do you worship?

Not worship like in a church, or such.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Im a shaman. Not worship like in a church, or such.

Hello. That’s interesting. So you’re a healer? Since I was young I felt drawn to healing the world.

We Baha’is pray and meditate in private but also say prayers when we meet. Baha’u’llah revealed many prayers and also a Long Healing Prayer that has special power and in it He says that even those who walk near the prayer receive Healing.

...and whoso reciteth it, and whoso cometh upon it, and whoso passeth around the house wherein it is. Heal Thou, then, by it every sick, diseased and poor one, from every tribulation and distress, from every loathsome affliction and sorrow, and guide Thou by it whosoever desireth to enter upon the paths of Thy guidance, and the ways of Thy forgiveness and grace

He is the Healer...