Can Jews Accept King David as Messiah?

[wizanda]

With the additional yod on the word blemished in Isaiah 52:14 in the Dead Sea Scrolls 1QIsaa, we can see Isaiah is then paraphrasing David in the Psalms.
[GALLERY=media, 8710][/GALLERY]
Psalms 89:19-21 Then you spoke in vision to your saints, and said, “I have given strength to the warrior. I have exalted a young man from the people. I have found David, my servant. I have anointed him with my holy oil, (21) with whom my hand shall be established. My arm will also strengthen him.

Isaiah 52:13-14 Behold, my servant will deal wisely. He will be exalted and lifted up, and will be very high. Just as many were astonished by him, for I anointed him more than others appearance, and his form more than a son of man.

In these next verses it indicates that it is David himself as the returning Messiah... Thus it would make sense he has to be the Suffering Servant who fulfilled what was prophesied.

Ezekiel 34:23-24, Ezekiel 37:24-25, Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 30:8-9, Jeremiah 33:15, Hosea 3:5, Isaiah 55:3, Isaiah 22:22, Isaiah 9:6-7, Revelation 5:5, etc.

Is there anything that anyone can't understand about King David being Yehoshua/Yeshua, and then being the fulfillment of what is prophesied to come?

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Jews waiting for Jesus, not for David in the way i understand their religion. But i am not expert in jewish religion.
How did your question arise?

 

[Rival]

Jews waiting for Jesus,

Jews are not waiting for Jesus.

 

[wizanda]

How did your question arise?

Exegesis, as the thread shows... I like to know how things work, thus dismantled my Rubix Cube, BMX, PC, etc; if I don't get it, I'll seek it out.

Jews waiting for Jesus, not for David in the way i understand their religion.

Jews wait for the Messiah who is of the Line of David, as the verses I posted suggest....

I'm asking can we be more specific, and say this is a reincarnation of King David, where we can literally show that as the most likely possibility in the text.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day Yahweh will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem. He who is feeble among them at that day will be like David, and David’s house will be like God, like Yahweh’s angel before them.

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Jews are not waiting for Jesus.

Thank you. i must have misunderstood

 

[wizanda]

Jews are not waiting for Jesus.

Yeah bit silly using a made up name; the expectations are waiting for Salvation to come back (Yeshua), and finally lead them into the Promised Land with an Age of Godliness.

Where Moses specifically name Hosea son of Nun, Yehoshua son of Nun as he shall lead you into the Promised Land.

Then Zechariah 6 makes clear that the Branch Yehoshua that is of the Line of David shall lead the people back from the Babylonian exile.

So the name being specific is very important to exegesis, as most of the contexts surrounds the name.

In my opinion.

 

[Rival]

Thank you. i must have misunderstood

The Jews are waiting for the Messiah. They don't believe Jesus was it.

 

[wizanda]

They don't believe Jesus was it.

It is interesting in both the Sefer of Zerubbabel, and in Zechariah 3-4 it relates the idea of the Messiah defiled; yet then exchanged for the real one along side it.

King David (Beloved )/Yeshua/Yehoshua Vs Jesus (Hellenized ).

Synoptic Gospels Vs John, Paul, and Simon.​

In my opinion.

 

[Tumah]

With the additional yod on the word blemished in Isaiah 52:14 in the Dead Sea Scrolls 1QIsaa, we can see Isaiah is then paraphrasing David in the Psalms.
[GALLERY=media, 8710][/GALLERY]
Psalms 89:19-21 Then you spoke in vision to your saints, and said, “I have given strength to the warrior. I have exalted a young man from the people. I have found David, my servant. I have anointed him with my holy oil, (21) with whom my hand shall be established. My arm will also strengthen him.

Isaiah 52:13-14 Behold, my servant will deal wisely. He will be exalted and lifted up, and will be very high. Just as many were astonished by him, for I anointed him more than others appearance, and his form more than a son of man.

Not exactly, and I think I pointed this out to you in a previous post you made about the same thing.
The translation of "I annointed" is problematic because the phrase "I anointed him more than the appearance of others" is a non-sequitur. It's not the "appearance" of a person that is anointed, so one cannot be anointed more than the appearance of others.
A more likely translation is mišaḥti (instead of mašaḥti), meaning "I marred" and this reading would say that G-d was the one who caused the Servants visage to be marred more than others.

This would actually fit the Jewish interpretation of the Servant as the nation of Israel, because it expresses that the nations recognize that Israel was spurned by G-d. This is consistent with Deut. 29:23-27, where the nations see the destruction that occurs to the land of Israel and the exile of the nation, and attribute it to G-d.

In these next verses it indicates that it is David himself as the returning Messiah... Thus it would make sense he has to be the Suffering Servant who fulfilled what was prophesied.

This assumes that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah, and that is not something that Jewish people agree to.

Ezekiel 34:23-24, Ezekiel 37:24-25, Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 30:8-9, Jeremiah 33:15, Hosea 3:5, Isaiah 55:3, Isaiah 22:22, Isaiah 9:6-7

These are all instances where David is used in reference to the Messiah. Although reincarnation of David as the Messiah is technically feasible, it's possibility is not more that the possibility that David is simply being used as an archetype for the Messiah, since out of his own merit he was promised to bear the Messiah.

, Revelation 5:5, etc.

Obviously Jews don't take that book seriously.

Is there anything that anyone can't understand about King David being Yehoshua/Yeshua, and then being the fulfillment of what is prophesied to come?

In my opinion.

I guess it depends who you're directing your question to and how you mean it. Obviously Jewish people do not recognize a 1st century figure by any name, to have been the Messiah. So that understanding would be alien to us.

 

[Estro Felino]

I believe we Christians give Christ (=Messiah) a totally different meaning than Jews
hey happy birthday wiz

 

[Rival]

I believe we Christians give Christ (=Messiah) a totally different meaning than Jews

But what exactly makes them think they have the right to do that, given that they've taken a Jewish concept, use Jewish scriptures and Jewish ideas?

 

[pearl]

I believe we Christians give Christ (=Messiah) a totally different meaning than Jews

I don't think the awaited Messiah of the Jews was to be a divinity. Nor do I think the author of the suffering servant of Isaiah refers to a god-man, but to Israel itself.
As Christians we read it with the 'mind of Christ' but that is not to understand it to be the author's intent at the time he wrote.

 

[metis]

There are numerous messiahs mentioned in the Tanakh, and since David was selected by God to become king, he qualifies.

 

[1213]

...
Is there anything that anyone can't understand about King David being Yehoshua/Yeshua, and then being the fulfillment of what is prophesied to come?...

Maybe David is not the Messiah, because:

He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit on my right hand, Until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet?' "If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?"
Matt. 22:43-45

In that Jesus is referring to Psalm 110:1: “Yahweh says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet.".

 

[wizanda]

Psalm 110:1

Psalms 110:1 Has two beings there YHVH and David... So YHVH says to David my Lord.

Matt. 22:43-45

Yeshua isn't the son of David; he is the flesh of David reincarnated, with the Spirit of the Lord upon him.

In my opinion.

 

[Tumah]

Psalms 110:1 Has two beings there YHVH and David... So YHVH says to David my Lord.

Why do you think that G-d is talking to David? David is the one who wrote the Psalm, and he is calling someone else, "my lord".

 

[wizanda]

Why do you think that G-d is talking to David?

Because the Hebrew says David is writing it, and then YHVH says to my Lord... YHVH is a Divine Representative (Elohim).

לדוד Of David
מזמור Psalm

נאם Says
יהוה Lord
לאדני To My Lord

The translation of "I annointed" is problematic

Agreed, yet lets stick with what is there in the language possibly, taking that it could be a paraphrasing of Psalm 89 purposefully, and if we overwrite David's place in prophecy to fit a Rabbinic idea, we're not being true to the text.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

Psalms 89:19-21 Then you spoke in vision to your saints, and said, “I have given strength to the warrior. I have exalted a young man from the people. I have found David, my servant. I have anointed him with my holy oil, (21) with whom my hand shall be established. My arm will also strengthen him.

Isaiah 52:13-14 Behold, my servant will deal wisely. He will be exalted and lifted up, and will be very high. Just as many were astonished by him, for I anointed from man his appearance, and his form more than the sons of Adam.

In my opinion.

 

[Estro Felino]

But what exactly makes them think they have the right to do that, given that they've taken a Jewish concept, use Jewish scriptures and Jewish ideas?

they? I'm a Christian too

 

[Tumah]

Because the Hebrew says David is writing it, and then YHVH says to my Lord... YHVH is a Divine Representative (Elohim).

לדוד Of David
מזמור Psalm

נאם Says
יהוה Lord
לאדני To My Lord

The Hebrew does seem to say that David is writing it, which means that the 1st person is David. That means that David is saying that G-d is speaking to his (David's) lord. David's lord is obviously not himself.

Agreed, yet lets stick with what is there in the language possibly, taking that it could be a paraphrasing of Psalm 89 purposefully, and if we overwrite David's place in prophecy to fit a Rabbinic idea, we're not being true to the text.

Psalms 89:19-21 Then you spoke in vision to your saints, and said, “I have given strength to the warrior. I have exalted a young man from the people. I have found David, my servant. I have anointed him with my holy oil, (21) with whom my hand shall be established. My arm will also strengthen him.

Isaiah 52:13-14 Behold, my servant will deal wisely. He will be exalted and lifted up, and will be very high. Just as many were astonished by him, for I anointed from man his appearance, and his form more than the sons of Adam.

In my opinion.

We aren't overwriting David's place here, we're trying to extract the meaning from the text. Your interpretation requires a reading that makes no sense as I pointed out before. What you are trying to do is force an allusion of David into the text by creating parallel phraseology between Psalms and Isaiah. But one of those phrases don't make sense. An appearance is not something that gets anointed, it's an abstract thing. A head is something that gets anointed. An appearance is not, it's something that gets disfigured.