Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

[sooda]

Don´ talk to a Muslim to try and understand their faith, read the koran and hadith, There you will find all you need to know about Islam.

Anyone can read the Koran and the hadiths, but to sit down and break bread and really talk and laugh together is very special. We have so much in common in terms of family, hopes and dreams, worries etc.

 

[shmogie]

I consider it in a different way, so I see none of your posted options tell of Jesus the Christ.

Jesus of Nazareth was 'Christ' the 'Annointed One'. Born of Mary, born of and Annointed of the Holy Spirit, in the Station of the Son. Jesus as Christ, promised to return with a new name, in the 'Glory of God' as the Father to guide us unto all truth.

It was the One God that Gave us Christ, the 'Son' and that has now given us Christ returned as the 'Father', the 'Glory of God', Baha'u'llah.

To be true to Christ the Son, one must see Christ in Baha'u'llah the Father.

In this way, it is the only way we will also see that Muhamad and all the Messengers are also from our One God. All 'Annointed' by God, all 'Christ'. The First and the Last.

Regards Tony

I don´t know who ballulalulah is, and I don´t really care.

Unless he believes/ believed that there is only one name under heaven by which one may be saved, Jesus Christ, he is/was teaching falsehood, just as mohammed did, another false prophet.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don´t know who ballulalulah is, and I don´t really care.

Unless he believes/ believed that there is only one name under heaven by which one may be saved, Jesus Christ, he is/was teaching falsehood, just as mohammed did, another false prophet.

That is up to you to determine. You now have been told Christ returned as Baha'u'llah. Thus that becomes our Judgement day, to which all things are weighed.

"..The mystic and wondrous Bride, hidden ere this beneath the veiling of utterance, hath now, by the grace of God and His divine favor, been made manifest even as the resplendent light shed by the beauty of the Beloved. I bear witness, O friends! that the favor is complete, the argument fulfilled, the proof manifest and the evidence established. Let it now be seen what your endeavors in the path of detachment will reveal. In this wise hath the divine favor been fully vouchsafed unto you and unto them that are in heaven and on earth. All praise to God, the Lord of all Worlds..."

Regards Tony

 

[shmogie]

Anyone can read the Koran and the hadiths, but to sit down and break bread and really talk and laugh together is very special. We have so much in common in terms of family, hopes and dreams, worries etc.

Family and hopes and dreams will not save you. If you believe blasphemy about the Christ as found in the koran, you cannot be saved.

I know atheists who are wonderful kind and loving people, but that isn´t the standard.

After clearly and unambiguously explaining exactly who He was, after performing many miracles to show His authority, he said, ¨ he who is not for Me, is against Me. ¨

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Family and hopes and dreams will not save you. If you believe blasphemy about the Christ as found in the koran, you cannot be saved.

I know atheists who are wonderful kind and loving people, but that isn´t the standard.

After clearly and unambiguously explaining exactly who He was, after performing many miracles to show His authority, he said, ¨ he who is not for Me, is against Me. ¨

It could be, that until we find the Christ that the Quran again shows us how to Love, in a manner befitting of Christ, as the Bible intended, then one is against Christ and not for Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[shmogie]

That is up to you to determine. You now have been told Christ returned as Baha'u'llah. Thus that becomes our Judgement day, to which all things are weighed.

"..The mystic and wondrous Bride, hidden ere this beneath the veiling of utterance, hath now, by the grace of God and His divine favor, been made manifest even as the resplendent light shed by the beauty of the Beloved. I bear witness, O friends! that the favor is complete, the argument fulfilled, the proof manifest and the evidence established. Let it now be seen what your endeavors in the path of detachment will reveal. In this wise hath the divine favor been fully vouchsafed unto you and unto them that are in heaven and on earth. All praise to God, the Lord of all Worlds..."

Regards Tony

Sorry mate, that is total blasphemy.

Is ballulalula still around ? If so, when Christ really does return, he is in for a huge surprise.

If he is dead, well, that kind of ends the discussion doesn´t it ?

Like all the dead he will be resurrected to Judgement, the Bible says he will be wailing and gnashing his teeth..............

 

[shmogie]

It could be, that until we find the Christ that the Quran again shows us how to Love, in a manner befitting of Christ, as the Bible intended, then one is against Christ and not for Christ.

Regards Tony

Whew, which walnut shell is the pea under ?

The koran is just another manifestation of a counterfeit faith, a faith obsessed by sex, just as the mad founder was.

satan sets his traps very cunningly. I believe you have been trapped. You still have time to find the truth, but your fate could be sealed at any time.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry mate, that is total blasphemy.

Is ballulalula still around ? If so, when Christ really does return, he is in for a huge surprise.

If he is dead, well, that kind of ends the discussion doesn´t it ?

Like all the dead he will be resurrected to Judgement, the Bible says he will be wailing and gnashing his teeth..............

You should consider what you said about Baha'u'llah in relation to Jesus the Christ. You can only say for sure that Christ is in your heart, you can prove naught else but that.

Stay well and happy shmogie. I wish you well in the future.

Regards Tony

 

[sooda]

Whew, which walnut shell is the pea under ?

The koran is just another manifestation of a counterfeit faith, a faith obsessed by sex, just as the mad founder was.

satan sets his traps very cunningly. I believe you have been trapped. You still have time to find the truth, but your fate could be sealed at any time.

OMG.. YOU ARE obsessed with sex, Islam is all about survival in the Arabian desert... not sex.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Whew, which walnut shell is the pea under ?

The koran is just another manifestation of a counterfeit faith, a faith obsessed by sex, just as the mad founder was.

satan sets his traps very cunningly. I believe you have been trapped. You still have time to find the truth, but your fate could be sealed at any time.

"....Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing....."

Regards Tony

 

[shmogie]

OMG.. YOU ARE obsessed with sex, Islam is all about survival in the Arabian desert... not sex.

Right. That 6 year old bride would attest to that.

 

[shmogie]

"....Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing....."

Regards Tony

I am not sure the verse you quote would apply to an unrepentant soul who believes, and leads other to believe, that he is Jesus the Christ.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am not sure the verse you quote would apply to an unrepentant soul who believes, and leads other to believe, that he is Jesus the Christ.

Only Christ can be Christ. Luckily Christ left guidance so we can make a choice.

Regards Tony

 

[shmogie]

Only Christ can be Christ. Luckily Christ left guidance so we can make a choice.

Regards Tony

Absolutely right !

 

[iam1me]

This question is mostly for adherents of Abrahamic Faiths though I have left it open for all to answer and put it in the general debate section to enable us to discuss freely and frankly.

I would consider the answer to be yes, no, or maybe

'Yes' if we are prepared to see God as transcendant above man made concepts. I see God is an unknowable essence. His essence can never be understood by man, anymore than the fetus can conceive of life outside the womb. God wants us to know and worship Him, so He reveals Himself through the likes of Christ and Muhammad. Man listens, thinks he's understood, then creates a theology he sincerely believes is founded on the words God has revealed, but in reality his comprehension is veiled by his vain imaginations.

'No' if we believe that scholars and religious leaders of each religion have faithfully contructed the best theology to represent the true spirit and intent of their founder. If that were true then it would be impossible for the contradictions within Islam and Christianity to be resolved. Either one or the other or both would be false.

I lean strongly towards yes. There is just One God and He has revealed Himself through both Jesus and Muhammad.

Questions, comments, discussion and debate as you will.

I think the biggest - and irreconcilable - differences between Islam and Christianity concern the identity of Christ. I'm a Christian myself, and I reject the Trinity. So that isn't really a hold up for me. The bigger issue is that Islam denies Jesus as the Son of God and as Lord - not to mention the crucifixion and resurrection.

This in turn leads us to the question of God's grand plan and will for humanity. In Christianity, God's plans for us culminate in Christ. In Islam, Mohammad is the last and greatest prophet - superseding Christ. You can't accept both of these things, so you can't really reconcile these two religions without seriously compromising one or both of them.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think the biggest - and irreconcilable - differences between Islam and Christianity concern the identity of Christ. I'm a Christian myself, and I reject the Trinity. So that isn't really a hold up for me. The bigger issue is that Islam denies Jesus as the Son of God and as Lord - not to mention the crucifixion and resurrection.

This in turn leads us to the question of God's grand plan and will for humanity. In Christianity, God's plans for us culminate in Christ. In Islam, Mohammad is the last and greatest prophet - superseding Christ. You can't accept both of these things, so you can't really reconcile these two religions without seriously compromising one or both of them.

Welcome back.

The way I see it is both Christianity and Islam are right and wrong in their theological beliefs. The contradictions are perceived rather than real. They are derived from interpretation and misunderstandings about sacred writings rather than any problem with either the Bible or Quran. Both Christ and Muhammad were Manifestations of God Himself in that both revealed His purpose.The easiest example is the two verses in the Quran that refer to Christ’s crucifixion.

Surah 4:157-158 says:

“. . . they [the Jews] said (in boast), ‘We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah’ – But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not – Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself . . . .”1

This would be best understood allegorically rather that literally. They killed him but they did not kill His Spirit.

 

[iam1me]

Welcome back.

The way I see it is both Christianity and Islam are right and wrong in their theological beliefs. The contradictions are perceived rather than real. They are derived from interpretation and misunderstandings about sacred writings rather than any problem with either the Bible or Quran. Both Christ and Muhammad were Manifestations of God Himself in that both revealed His purpose.The easiest example is the two verses in the Quran that refer to Christ’s crucifixion.

Surah 4:157-158 says:

“. . . they [the Jews] said (in boast), ‘We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah’ – But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not – Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself . . . .”1

This would be best understood allegorically rather that literally. They killed him but they did not kill His Spirit.

Thanks

You can say they were both prophets of the Lord, but that just avoids the issues I brought up. Is Jesus the one through whom God fulfilled his plans or not? Was Jesus crucified, resurrected, and made Lord? Or was he just one in a long line of prophets?

Such issues are at the very heart of these religions - very real differences vs merely perceived differences. If you reject the salvific work of Christ, you no longer have Christianity.

Perhaps Islam can bend on the matter - haven't studied it or the Quran much, though off hand I'd find it unlikely. A glance a the verses you quoted doesn't give me the impression that they are intended as allegory. Additionally, acknowledging Christ's salvific work would deprive Mohommad of being the Great Prophet, as he would clearly be inferior.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Thanks

You can say they were both prophets of the Lord, but that just avoids the issues I brought up. Is Jesus the one through whom God fulfilled his plans or not? Was Jesus crucified, resurrected, and made Lord? Or was he just one in a long line of prophets?

Such issues are at the very heart of these religions - very real differences vs merely perceived differences. If you reject the salvific work of Christ, you no longer have Christianity.

Perhaps Islam can bend on the matter - haven't studied it or the Quran much, though off hand I'd find it unlikely. A glance a the verses you quoted doesn't give me the impression that they are intended as allegory. Additionally, acknowledging Christ's salvific work would deprive Mohommad of being the Great Prophet, as he would clearly be inferior.

The Jews after two thousand years remain adamant that not a single verse in the Tanakh refers to Jesus as Christ. As Jesus said:

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 3:12

The rigid and uncompromising theological positions of both Christians and Muslims is simply history repeating itself.

 

[sooda]

Family and hopes and dreams will not save you. If you believe blasphemy about the Christ as found in the koran, you cannot be saved.

I know atheists who are wonderful kind and loving people, but that isn´t the standard.

After clearly and unambiguously explaining exactly who He was, after performing many miracles to show His authority, he said, ¨ he who is not for Me, is against Me. ¨

Jesus is revered in the Koran.. He is considered the purest of the prophets, a man born of a virgin from the mind of God.. a man without sin.

The Issue .. and you may want to think about this and YOUR concept of God.. is that Muslims believe God forgave Adam and Eve, there is no original sin and innocent blood (sacrifice) doesn't ameliorate sin.

Their beliefs make absolute sense to me even though I am a Christian.. Blood sacrifice is repulsive to me.. its a pagan throwback to Azazel the scapegoat. God does not eat, nor is he fed..

 

[iam1me]

The Jews after two thousand years remain adamant that not a single verse in the Tanakh refers to Jesus as Christ. As Jesus said:

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 3:12

Some Jews reject Jesus, others accept him. All the earliest Christians were Jews, and jews have continued to accept Jesus ever since - such as Messianic Jews today. Not sure what your point here is.

The rigid and uncompromising theological positions of both Christians and Muslims is simply history repeating itself.

There are core teachings that define any given belief system. Some belief systems are inherently incompatible and cannot be reconciled - no matter how much you might want to do so.