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Can God Lie?

Greatest I am

Well-Known Member
Interesting video. I agre with most of what that young man had to say, having traveled extensively. By far, and I apologize to anyone living in the southeast before I begin, I have seen so many lower IQ people who were or are morbidly obese in that area. Are people happier d/t religion? Maybe it gives them solace with regard to life's harder questions and/or issues. I don't know that I agree with that though. The happier people I have met were more spiritual than religious, and many followed a deist free path. While it is true that most, if not all, religions contain myth and fantastical ideas, and nine can be proven, they also give people peace. I fail to see the down side of that. Particularly with elders facing death.

The down side from MPOV is that I prefer to live a life based on truth and not one based on delusion.


Regards
DL
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
@ atpollard
Grace and peace of my lord Jesus and of the Almighty God to you.

Peace be on you and thank you.


I have a friend who is a former Ahmadiyya-Muslim.
He has told me of the beauty of Islam and the gentle grace of what his loving parents taught him.
He has told me of his pride in his people and the his great joy at your 1989 gathering in England.

Good to hear, please tell him to come back and spread the peace his parents taught with so much sacrifices.




He also told me that many Muslims (wrongly) criticize your sect, some claiming that you are not true Muslims ... that some call you kafir.

Very true. When he discuss, compare and pray, God helps them to join the Movement.




I greatly admire your stand against violence, but I hope that you will be honest enough with me to admit that some Shia and Sunnis would not agree with your interpretations of the Qur'an.
I personally suspect that most Shia and Sunnis would disagree with your teachings.

If not most, many, but as I said, when they see the weight in arguments and divine support they join eventually; from 1889 (the start) till today, Message has established in 206 countries with quite fast conversion rate. Obviously best of them keep coming.



What concerns me, is that 10-15% of Muslims are Shia and 80% are Sunnis. That leaves only 5% to 10% of Muslims who might share your peaceful view of the Qur'an.

Right, that is why all good forces should fully support the Movement.



With verses like the following, it is not hard to see how some Muslims might not take the struggle and fighting to be of a spiritual nature, but adopt the Hadith teachings that it is a more physical and militant struggle that you are called to.


Qur’an 5:51—O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Qur’an 9:30—And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Qur’an 98:6—Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein. They are the worst of creatures.

Sahih Muslim 4366—Muhammad said: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.”

Al-Bukhari, Al-Adab al-Mufrad 1103—Muhammad said: “Do not give the People of the Book the greeting first. Force them to the narrowest part of the road.”
Please note above verse are not general order for Muslim because:
For a better world, there is enough strong base present for righteous ties of love based on goodness and righteousness between Muslims, Jews and Christians exist and desirable:

1- The first scholar who testified to the truth of Holy Prophet Muhammad was (pbuh) the Christian scholar cousin of Hazrat Khadija (r.a.) named Warqah bin Noufal (may Allah bless his soul).

2- Holy Quran says about about likeness with Hazrat Moses (on whom be peace) :
[73:16] Verily, We have sent to you a Messenger, who is a witness over you, even as We sent a Messenger to Pharaoh.

3- [42:14] He has prescribed for you the religion which He enjoined on Noah, and which We have revealed to thee, and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying, ‘Remain steadfast in obedience, and be not divided therein. Hard upon the idolaters is that to which thou callest them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases, and guides to Himself him who turns to Him.’


4- [3;65] Say, ‘O People of the Book! come to a word equal between us and you — that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partner with Him, and that some of us take not others for Lords beside Allah.’ But if they turn away, then say, ‘Bear witness that we have submitted to God.’

5- [5:3] "...........And let not the enmity of a people, that they hindered you from the Sacred Mosque, incite you to transgress. And help one another in righteousness and piety; but help not one another in sin and transgression......."


6- [21:108] And We have sent thee not but as a mercy for all peoples.

Thus the real Islam unites all the righteous of the world around one divine center of righteousness, hence some certain verse (like the ones you mentioned) have very specific-limited-situation-based meaning, not the general teaching.




I hope that the Ahmadiyya-Muslims will one day win over the majority.

These latter days are like:
[30:42] Corruption has appeared on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought, that He may make them taste the fruit of some of their doings, so that they may turn back from evil.

Majority is good but only if people are God loving and God fearing and righteous in conduct, as Holy Quran says:
[6:117] [6:117] And if thou obey the majority of those on earth, they will lead thee astray from Allah’s way. They follow nothing but mere conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.

We know once Abraham was alone, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (Peace and blessings be on them) were alone but people found in them something which kept drawing them towards them. The same light have been granted to The Ardent Devotee of Muhammad (pbuh).



Until then, I fear it is a dangerous road to assume that all Muslims hold your peaceful intentions.
Muslim against Muslim violence suggests that my fears are not unfounded.

Your fears are very true, but The Remedy is working too, may God help it speed up.
A sad news: Ahmadiyya Times: Pakistan: Popular Ahmadi youth leader gunned down in Karachi was target of hateful wall-chalking


[repeat from above]..You mentioned a resource: " “Do not give the People of the Book the greeting first."
I find in Quran, that the merciful Allah commands Muhammad (pbuh) to convey greeting of salam to other:
[43:89] I swear by his repeated cry ‘O my Lord!’ that these are a people who will not believe.
[43:90] Therefore, turn aside from them, and say,
‘Peace’; and soon shall they know.

Thus greeting everyone is exact Islam and exact practice of Holy Prophet (pbuh). [Hadith are not judge of Quran, First is Quran, then continuous practice of Holy Prophet (pbuh) then Hadith which should in line of above two]


May God bless you and keep you
.
Greeting of Peace by Holy Prophet (pbuh) as directed by Allah be to everyone.
 
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JoStories

Well-Known Member
The down side from MPOV is that I prefer to live a life based on truth and not one based on delusion.


Regards
DL
That is great, since I can assume it works for you. I would never try to convince someone that there is a god. That is my belief, which does work for you. But I support all views and am not at all like those who browbeat to convert people. I hate those people. It does not work and in fact, is counterproductive, IMO.
 

Greatest I am

Well-Known Member
That is great, since I can assume it works for you. I would never try to convince someone that there is a god. That is my belief, which does work for you. But I support all views and am not at all like those who browbeat to convert people. I hate those people. It does not work and in fact, is counterproductive, IMO.

You say you support all views.

Does that apply to these religious views?



African witches and Jesus



Jesus Camp 1of 3



Death to Gays.



Regards
DL
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
You say you support all views.

Does that apply to these religious views?



African witches and Jesus



Jesus Camp 1of 3



Death to Gays.



Regards
DL
Oh come on now greatest. I would think you know me a little by now. I find that horse ****e exactly that and morally reprehensible. It's crap, plain and simple. I only wish there was a law to imprison the alleged parents of those poor children, both in Africa and here. But let me ask you this? What was it that all Those videos had in common? Stupid arse people subjecting children to stupid crap. I support the parents right to believe whatever they want but NOT at the expense of children. EVER.
 

Greatest I am

Well-Known Member
Oh come on now greatest. I would think you know me a little by now. I find that horse ****e exactly that and morally reprehensible. It's crap, plain and simple. I only wish there was a law to imprison the alleged parents of those poor children, both in Africa and here. But let me ask you this? What was it that all Those videos had in common? Stupid arse people subjecting children to stupid crap. I support the parents right to believe whatever they want but NOT at the expense of children. EVER.

No argument. I just wanted to have you be more careful in how you state what you are willing to tolerate.

Your heart and political correctness is softer and gentler than mine but I did not want it to hide from the lurkers here what your true views and standards are.

Respect my friend.

Regards
DL



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JoStories

Well-Known Member
No argument. I just wanted to have you be more careful in how you state what you are willing to tolerate.

Your heart and political correctness is softer and gentler than mine but I did not want it to hide from the lurkers here what your true views and standards are.

Respect my friend.

Regards
DL



1
Thank you. However, as an old broad, I have tougher skin than you think. And keep in mind, I worked in either an ER or iCU most of my career. That makes one have thick skin.
 
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