Can God Lie?

[Greatest I am]

Your question is malformed in order to spark debate.

God can lie, yes.

God does not lie. God will not lie. In that sense, He "cannot" but not due to incapability or limitation.

The difference is obvious.


You are capable of murder. Shall I call you a murderer?

Rather a poor use of language. No wonder Christianity is shrinking with the senseless babble of it's apologists.

You seem to think God has no limitations. Joseph wondered why God could not create a son without cuckolding him.

Care to inform us as to why God was limited and had to sinfully covet and use another man's wife?

Regards
DL

 

[catch22]

Rather a poor use of language. No wonder Christianity is shrinking with the senseless babble of it's apologists.

You seem to think God has no limitations. Joseph wondered why God could not create a son without cuckolding him.

Care to inform us as to why God was limited and had to sinfully covet and use another man's wife?

Regards
DL

I doubt you'd believe or accept anything I say, but alright. I'll bite.

First, Mary wasn't Joseph's wife. They were betrothed, not married (Matthew 1:18-20).

Second, you make more assumptions. You say "why God could not create a son without..." That's not limitation. That's free reign. God created everything. He created the first man out of dirt. He made the universe out of nothing, just by speaking the word. Sure, He could have done it that way again. He didn't. Deal with it. Joseph didn't have a problem with it after it was revealed to him as being the truth.

As for reasoning, it is described pretty well in 1 Corinthians 15:20-22:

"But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."

Genesis 3:15 says,

"And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel."

The seed of a woman. Kinda strange, no? So it goes like this: those of us born of Adam (read: everyone in history, except Jesus) are dead in sin, that is, with the curse of Adam. Christ is conceived of the Holy Spirit, not mankind, thus not Adam, thus He is a different kind of man. God used a vessel for this. Mary was the vessel.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So much for the line of David.

 

[1137]

Gods can trick, deceive, lie... I don't see why they would not be able to. Questions of morality are not even relevant if morals were created by god(s), as the deities would be above morality. When it comes to mainstream religions, I tend to see trickery more than outright lying. For example, the Hebrew (and supposedly Christian) god(s) was perfectly capable of preventing the fall of man. The Christian god went so far as to send everyone to hell for something he could have easily stopped. But lying - why not?

 

[psychoslice]

For me god died years ago.

 

[psychoslice]

For me personally there is no god, but I would say that the lies come from those who wrote the so called scriptures, its their own opinions of what they believe god said.

 

[Greatest I am]

I doubt you'd believe or accept anything I say, but alright. I'll bite.

First, Mary wasn't Joseph's wife. They were betrothed, not married (Matthew 1:18-20).

Second, you make more assumptions. You say "why God could not create a son without..." That's not limitation. That's free reign. God created everything. He created the first man out of dirt. He made the universe out of nothing, just by speaking the word. Sure, He could have done it that way again. He didn't. Deal with it. Joseph didn't have a problem with it after it was revealed to him as being the truth.

As for reasoning, it is described pretty well in 1 Corinthians 15:20-22:

"But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."

Genesis 3:15 says,

"And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel."

The seed of a woman. Kinda strange, no? So it goes like this: those of us born of Adam (read: everyone in history, except Jesus) are dead in sin, that is, with the curse of Adam. Christ is conceived of the Holy Spirit, not mankind, thus not Adam, thus He is a different kind of man. God used a vessel for this. Mary was the vessel.

Do you recognize all the superstition and miracles you want me to swallow to believe all your B.S.?

Including your God being such a prick that he would pass on Adams' so called sin onto his descendants going directly against your WORD?

Do you not realize how immoral that makes your genocidal son murdering God.

Do I need to get the quote that says that a son is not responsible for what his father does?

Or do you have enough moral sense left to dither that out for yourself?


Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

You cannot create an apology to justify what you believe.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

So much for the line of David.

Not fair to introduce facts to a Christian.

They do not accept them and run to hide behind their founding fathers views. I show that view, Martin Luther's, in this old O.P.

==================

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.


Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.


The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]


How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?


Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”


This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.


Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.


Regards

DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Gods can trick, deceive, lie... I don't see why they would not be able to. Questions of morality are not even relevant if morals were created by god(s), as the deities would be above morality. When it comes to mainstream religions, I tend to see trickery more than outright lying. For example, the Hebrew (and supposedly Christian) god(s) was perfectly capable of preventing the fall of man. The Christian god went so far as to send everyone to hell for something he could have easily stopped. But lying - why not?

Not everyone. Those with their heads up his *** are what he brings to heaven with him.

Thank God for that as we would not want to pull that stopper out or we would have a new creation.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

For me personally there is no god, but I would say that the lies come from those who wrote the so called scriptures, its their own opinions of what they believe god said.

Let me show you the Gnostic Christian view.


The only God fit to rule men and women is a man or a woman. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man can express the will of God?

There have always only been men and women of good hearts able to express God’s real will.


Like Jesus and his wife who preached to seek God perpetually even after finding a bit of him or her within the self. We are to perpetually raise the bar of excellence for ourselves and our God.

Regards
DL

 

[catch22]

Do you recognize all the superstition and miracles you want me to swallow to believe all your B.S.?

I don't necessarily want or need you to believe anything. I did my part. You take it the way you do. It goes like that sometimes.

Including your God being such a prick that he would pass on Adams' so called sin onto his descendants going directly against your WORD?

If I told you not to steal something, and you stole it anyway and consequently got into trouble for it, it would be my fault. Is that right?

Do you not realize how immoral that makes your genocidal son murdering God.

If you're implying that God murdered His son, then I'll just inform you the Romans killed Jesus, brought on by the pharisees et al who wanted Him to die.

Do I need to get the quote that says that a son is not responsible for what his father does?

Uh, from which source? Are you talking about Ezekiel 18:20, or did you have something else in mind?

Because I don't think anyone said children are RESPONSIBLE for what their parents do. This is true for everyone, though. Like in the example above, you did the stealing, it's not my fault whether you want to blame me or not.

Oh, but it's a very different matter if a father's sin affects his child or not. It's not hard to see divorce rate correlations between parents who are divorced and their children's marriages, drug and alcohol abuse among family members, and what not. Some say it's bad parenting, others call it generational sin... however you identify it, we learn things from our parents and other influential members of society. That includes bad stuff, by the way.

Indeed, one's sin affects another. One is responsible for their own sin, but it still affects others.

Or do you have enough moral sense left to dither that out for yourself?

Shall I be moral like you, calling names and such? Are you a standard of morality, sir?

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Hi. This is life, welcome to it. If someone murders my wife, I suffer from that sin, even though I didn't commit it, nor am I responsible for it. I still suffer from it, though.

The good news is there is solace for such suffering. Jesus.

You cannot create an apology to justify what you believe.

I'm not here for apologetics necessarily. I assume you've heard the gospel and rejected it, so I have nothing to really say concerning that. I offered my perspective on the issue at hand, you rejected it as I foresaw, and the world continues spinning.

Good day.

 

[Greatest I am]

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Yep. Men are responsible for God choosing to have Jesus murdered. Men were around before the creation of the world. To fools who cannot read.


The following 2 quotes are why I call what God did murder. As you can see, a sacrifice was not required.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

As you can see all are saved without a sacrifice.

================

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

Regards
DL

 

[psychoslice]

Let me show you the Gnostic Christian view.


The only God fit to rule men and women is a man or a woman. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man can express the will of God?

There have always only been men and women of good hearts able to express God’s real will.


Like Jesus and his wife who preached to seek God perpetually even after finding a bit of him or her within the self. We are to perpetually raise the bar of excellence for ourselves and our God.

Regards
DL

That sound nice, can I ask what is God to you, is he a man, is he a personal being, or is he pure Source or Consciounsess ?.

 

[Greatest I am]

That sound nice, can I ask what is God to you, is he a man, is he a personal being, or is he pure Source or Consciounsess ?.

We are all God WIPs. Works in progress but what we are supposed to be doing is electing a God to lead us towards that higher full God status.

Divine Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is likely why Jesus asked, --- have ye forgotten that ye are Gods. Most have.

The elect are to elect a live God as scriptures are clear that only a living God should be venerated by mankind.

Idol worshipers call their God a living God yet never produce him.

The only real live Gods or Goddesses we have ever had and can ever have are glorified humans.

The Jews were well on their way to taking the supernatural garbage out of their theology but Christianity went the other way to embrace such garbage when they created their God.

Regards
DL

 

[Falvlun]

Rather a poor use of language. No wonder Christianity is shrinking with the senseless babble of it's apologis

I really don't see how it is a "poor use of language" to acknowledge that even though someone can do something, the mere ability doesn't mean that he will do something. This sounds more like sour grapes on your part.

You seem to think God has no limitations.
Joseph wondered why God could not create a son without cuckolding him.

Care to inform us as to why God was limited and had to sinfully covet and use another man's wife?

Regards
DL

This is really here nor there. It's a red herring. Threads have topics for reasons.

 

[Greatest I am]

I really don't see how it is a "poor use of language" to acknowledge that even though someone can do something, the mere ability doesn't mean that he will do something. This sounds more like sour grapes on your part.


This is really here nor there. It's a red herring. Threads have topics for reasons.

I really don't see how it is a "poor use of language" to acknowledge that even though someone can do something, the mere ability doesn't mean that he will do something. This sounds more like sour grapes on your part.


This is really here nor there. It's a red herring. Threads have topics for reasons.

Showing your God's reproductive limitations and sin of bestiality is hardly a fish.

He does not even have an ability that we have and is therefore inferior to men and women.

This is irrefutable.

Regards
DL

 

[Falvlun]

Showing your God's reproductive limitations and sin of bestiality is hardly a fish.

And it also has absolutely nothing to do with whether he has the ability to lie or not.

And just in case: Red Herring

He does not even have an ability that we have and is therefore inferior to men and women.

Huh?

This is irrefutable.

Regards
DL

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

[Greatest I am]

And it also has absolutely nothing to do with whether he has the ability to lie or not.

And just in case: Red Herring


Huh?



I don't think that means what you think it means.

Yes it does.

To your "Huh?".

"He does not even have an ability that we have and is therefore inferior to men and women."

I was referring to your God's inability to reproduce true while humans can.

In reproduction man is capable while your God is not.

Regards
DL

 

[Falvlun]

I was referring to your God's inability to reproduce true while humans can.

In reproduction man is capable while your God is not.

Well, it's seems like you are still confused in regards to the concept of being able to do something, but choosing not to. How do you know that God couldn't "reproduce true like a human can" but simply chose to do it another way? (And this is not even going into the odd notion you have that being unable to reproduce like a human somehow makes you inferior.)

This ties back in with your original issue with Catch22: Just because God chooses not to lie does not necessarily mean that he is unable to lie.

 

[Greatest I am]

Well, it's seems like you are still confused in regards to the concept of being able to do something, but choosing not to. How do you know that God couldn't "reproduce true like a human can" but simply chose to do it another way? (And this is not even going into the odd notion you have that being unable to reproduce like a human somehow makes you inferior.)

This ties back in with your original issue with Catch22: Just because God chooses not to lie does not necessarily mean that he is unable to lie.

Oh God lies quite often. He is the Father of all lies. God is the epitome of all attributes.

Except reproduction as he has never demonstrated true reproduction because the misogynous Christians tried to write women completely out of the bibles.

There is no confusion in my mind at all my friend.

Man is the epitome of reproduction and not some bestial God.

Yuk to having to use some species other than your own to reproduce.

This is just one of many things your God cannot do.

Regards
DL