Can God Lie?

[Twilight Hue]

No, I believe God cannot lie. The Bible calls Jehovah the "God of truth", and tells us "in order that through two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie", these two things being his word and his oath. (Hebrews 6:18)

So there is something that's totally impossible for God to do. Kinda nullifies that with God, nothing's impossible. God is limited after all.

That's what it seems to state here.

 

[Greatest I am]

Well, I'm not deflecting at all. I have no reason to. -- Deception is not necessarily good or evil; it depends on other factors, such as intent (as you point out). Simple enough?

Also, our ancestors assumption was their own. They weren't able to see the shape of the Earth, only the horizon, which deceived them.

So lying is moral to you. That shows what your religion has done to your morals.

Your deflection to white lies or an entity that cannot think and thus cannot be culpable for anything is duly noted.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

No, I believe God cannot lie. The Bible calls Jehovah the "God of truth", and tells us "in order that through two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie", these two things being his word and his oath. (Hebrews 6:18)

Read and respond to post 10 then please.

Regards
DL

 

[Sleeppy]

So lying is moral to you. That shows what your religion has done to your morals.

Your deflection to white lies or an entity that cannot think and thus cannot be culpable for anything is duly noted.

Regards
DL

Note your distortion. Your own morals are the problem here. You're self-righteous and autolatrous.

Lying can be either moral or immoral, depending on context. Use your brain.

 

[Greatest I am]

Note your distortion. Your own morals are the problem here. You're self-righteous and autolatrous.

Lying can be either moral or immoral, depending on context. Use your brain.

Show where any religion indicates that lying is moral?

Get the quote.

Regards
DL

 

[Caligula]

How would one know that the Bible itself is not the word of (or inspired by) Satan or any other competitor god, for example?

 

[Greatest I am]

How would one know that the Bible itself is not the word of (or inspired by) Satan or any other competitor god, for example?

One cannot.

That is why Gnostic Christian gage what is said by our morality scale and ignore who said it.

That is why we can look at Yahweh and decide that he is an evil demiurge.

Christians with their poor morals do not see it of course.

Regards
DL

 

[Sleeppy]

Show where any religion indicates that lying is moral?

Get the quote.

Regards
DL

Since when did you subject yourself to the words of any and every religion? -- Ask yourself this question: have there been any lies whatsoever that have benefited me, or anyone else, according to what is good and moral?

Have lives been saved? Have governments used them to preserve peace and order? Has child innocence been preserved? Have there been spousal, or other agreements, which say that certain lies are acceptable between two or more people? Have lies ever produced good fruit? -- Use your honesty, and answer that question. Then correct your own misguided and dogmatic view of reality.

 

[Greatest I am]

Since when did you subject yourself to the words of any and every religion? -- Ask yourself this question: have there been any lies whatsoever that have benefited me, or anyone else, according to what is good and moral?

Have lives been saved? Have governments used them to preserve peace and order? Has child innocence been preserved? Have there been spousal, or other agreements, which say that certain lies are acceptable between two or more people? Have lies ever produced good fruit? -- Use your honesty, and answer that question. Then correct your own misguided and dogmatic view of reality.

My answer is I do not know and it seems you do not either as you are not giving examples but just asking me to provide your evidence.

Fill in your argument with facts or be seen as not knowing what you are talking about.

Regards
DL

 

[rusra02]

So there is something that's totally impossible for God to do. Kinda nullifies that with God, nothing's impossible. God is limited after all.

That's what it seems to state here.

The only limitations God has are the limits he chooses to abide by to satisfy his own justice and righteous standards. It is impossible for God to sin or do anything contrary to his holiness, IMO.

 

[rusra02]

God can definitely lie.


Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.Thessalonians 2:11

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

That pesky God sure works in mysterious ways.

Regards
DL

2 Thessalonians 2:11-" That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie," Verses 9,10 show it is Satan that is able to mislead people who have no love for truth. God permits or lets this evil influence mislead them as a retribution for their unreceptive hearts to truth. He does not cause them to reject the truth.
The accounts in Chronicles and 1 Kings have already been discussed in other posts, as has Jeremiah 20:7.
As to Ezekiel 14:9; “‘But if the prophet is fooled and gives a response, it is I, Jehovah, who have fooled that prophet. I will then stretch out my hand against him and annihilate him from my people Israel." These are apparently false prophets, as verse 10 indicates. Jehovah will
Permit both the prophet and insincere inquirer to be destroyed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The only limitations God has are the limits he chooses to abide by to satisfy his own justice and righteous standards. It is impossible for God to sin or do anything contrary to his holiness, IMO.

Wouldn't that (sin) be something that God simply can't do in contrast to the saying that nothing is impossible with God?


Do you think he could sin if he wanted, and what do you think would happen to God if he did choose to sin?

You could see how quickly that becomes contradictory to some people.

 

[rusra02]

Wouldn't that (sin) be something that God simply can't do in contrast to the saying that nothing is impossible with God?


Do you think he could sin if he wanted, and what do you think would happen to God if he did choose to sin?

You could see how quickly that becomes contradictory to some people.

You are expressing a hypothetical that cannot happen, since the true God would never want to sin.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Man can lie, and make stuff up. That's how we got God in the first place.

 

[Sleeppy]

My answer is I do not know and it seems you do not either as you are not giving examples but just asking me to provide your evidence.

Fill in your argument with facts or be seen as not knowing what you are talking about.

Regards
DL

You don't know? Your worship of self is blinding you. A few facts:


1) During the Holocaust, there were individuals who harbored Jews. Fact.
2) When the Nazis came knocking, these individuals were asked, "Are there any Jews here?" Fact.
3) These individuals were then required to lie, in order to save the lives of those they were harboring, or tell the truth, resulting in the capture, humiliation, torture and death of such harbored Jews. Fact.
4) Some, if not most of these individuals were willing to lie to save lives. Fact.
5) Some crumbled under pressure, and gave the Nazis what they needed to fulfill their immoral acts. Fact.
6) These circumstances were, and are not entirely unique. There are lies being told this very second which are saving lives. Fact.
7) Autolatry is immoral. You are willing to see the splinters in everyone else's eye, but unable to acknowledge the huge beam in your own. Fact.

 

[catch22]

Your question is malformed in order to spark debate.

God can lie, yes.

God does not lie. God will not lie. In that sense, He "cannot" but not due to incapability or limitation.

The difference is obvious.


You are capable of murder. Shall I call you a murderer?

 

[Greatest I am]

2 Thessalonians 2:11-" That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie," Verses 9,10 show it is Satan that is able to mislead people who have no love for truth. God permits or lets this evil influence mislead them as a retribution for their unreceptive hearts to truth. He does not cause them to reject the truth.
The accounts in Chronicles and 1 Kings have already been discussed in other posts, as has Jeremiah 20:7.
As to Ezekiel 14:9; “‘But if the prophet is fooled and gives a response, it is I, Jehovah, who have fooled that prophet. I will then stretch out my hand against him and annihilate him from my people Israel." These are apparently false prophets, as verse 10 indicates. Jehovah will
Permit both the prophet and insincere inquirer to be destroyed.

IOW. God is a liar.

No wonder he repents so much in scriptures.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You are expressing a hypothetical that cannot happen, since the true God would never want to sin.

When someone can fathom the unfathomable God as deeply as you do, it is a sure sigh that you are a liar as you spout garbage that cannot be known except to liars or those who are delusional. This is irrefutable.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Man can lie, and make stuff up. That's how we got God in the first place.

You pegged it and our friend continues the lying tradition of his religion.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You don't know? Your worship of self is blinding you. A few facts:


1) During the Holocaust, there were individuals who harbored Jews. Fact.
2) When the Nazis came knocking, these individuals were asked, "Are there any Jews here?" Fact.
3) These individuals were then required to lie, in order to save the lives of those they were harboring, or tell the truth, resulting in the capture, humiliation, torture and death of such harbored Jews. Fact.
4) Some, if not most of these individuals were willing to lie to save lives. Fact.
5) Some crumbled under pressure, and gave the Nazis what they needed to fulfill their immoral acts. Fact.
6) These circumstances were, and are not entirely unique. There are lies being told this very second which are saving lives. Fact.
7) Autolatry is immoral. You are willing to see the splinters in everyone else's eye, but unable to acknowledge the huge beam in your own. Fact.

I notice you begin with a lie. Where do I say anything about worshiping anyone?

Any God that needs or wants worship is not much of a God as God has no wants or needs if he is an all powerful God.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the only Gods we have ever had are human ones and to adore or worship a human is rather foolish. Love is good for us. Worship is garbage.

The only God fit to rule men and women is a man or a woman. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man can express the will of God?

There have always only been men and women of good hearts able to express God’s will.

Like Jesus and his wife who preached to seek God perpetually even after finding a bit of him or her within the self. We are to perpetually raise the bar of excellence for ourselves and our Gods.


Regards
DL