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Can God change His mind?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by erelsgl, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. erelsgl

    erelsgl Member

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    73
    One of the principles of Jewish faith is that God's word in the Tora can never be changed.

    On the contrary, I have just read that in Islamic faith, Allah can change His mind, so if there are contradictions between Suras, the later Sura is the one to follow. Is this true?

    What does Christian faith say about this? What does Bahai faith say about this?
     
  2. punkdbass

    punkdbass I will be what I will be

    Messages:
    1,148
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    God does not change for He is God.. but I do think he has the ability to change His mind on certain things, although perhaps not in the manner you are questioning.

    For example, take the story of Jonah for example. God says He is going to destroy a wicked gentile nation due to their evilness. However, since man is given free will, the nation had the ability to repent and turn back from their evil ways.. which they did. And after they repented, God changed His mind and did not destroy them.

    But also keep in mind that God is not human, and He doesn't think like humans. I don't believe God literally "changes His mind" like a human being would. Rather His truth is eternal and infinite. If there appears to be contradictions, it is merely because man's search for God is imperfect.
     
  3. Many Sages One Truth

    Many Sages One Truth New Member

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    728
    Well the Bible says that God changed his mind about destroying Ninevah.
     
  4. Zardoz

    Zardoz Wonderful Wizard Staff Member

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    2,914
    Religion:
    Judaism, Ebionite
    Numbers 23:19

    God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?

    1 Samuel 15:29

    And he who is the Glory of Israel will not lie, nor will he change his mind, for he is not human that he should change his mind!"

    but...

    Repentance, prayer, and charity can avert the evil decree.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
  5. Pegg

    Pegg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,742

    God has been shown to change his mind. But I think you are asking a different question when you say 'can Gods word change'

    the written word, once it has been put down in writing, cannot change. The Torah has not changed in thousands of years. The NT writings have not changed either. Gods laws are still his laws. So those things have not changed. But as in the accounts where God has changed his direction, such as the execution of his judgment on Ninevah, he can change the way he manages a situation.
     
  6. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

    Messages:
    11,770
    Religion:
    Anglican...heretic
    I do not think God ever changes his mind... This is not the same as saying that he is unable to change his mind.
    However God may say different things at different times or to different people. God's purpose in doing this may well be unclear to us, but that is due to our lack of understanding and not because God Lies.
    The Holy books of the Abrahamic faiths Have changed over time, in content, understanding and translation. Religions themselves are not "fixed" but grow and change with our understanding.

    Those religions that do not live and grow will die.
     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule Well-Known Member

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    29,973
    Religion:
    Judaism
    You may wish to rethink this (and, perhaps, reread your Torah).
     
  8. AbdulMuhd

    AbdulMuhd New Member

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    71
    erersgl, what I believe you are referring to is the "Principle of Abrogation" in the Quran. Let me post extracts:

    Now, "abrogation" of Quranic verses was undertaken by the Prophet Muhammad with the authority of Allah, to update his ideology as circumstances changed for him.
     
  9. AbdulMuhd

    AbdulMuhd New Member

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    71
    Continuation of above post for those who need authentication and proof:

     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    29,973
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Why is it necessary for you to pollute yet another thread?
     
  11. AbdulMuhd

    AbdulMuhd New Member

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    Jay you have very strange values. Telling the truth with links for verification amounts to pollution. Yet you have not been able to rebut what I have said with any evidence. Why don't you let the readers decide? If what I have posted does not make sense, no one will pay any attention to it.

    Are you really a Judaist? Or is that Taqiyya? Your reaction seems to be that of a Muslim so far.

    Why don't you refute what I have said with evidence? I will be glad to answer any questions you may have about Islam, since you don't seems to be aware of many of Islam's ideologies and verses.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    29,973
    Religion:
    Judaism
    They are, indeed, very alien to you.
     
  13. AbdulMuhd

    AbdulMuhd New Member

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    Jay, could it be because we have read different books, or believe in different religions? Tell us your views then, and I hope you will allow me to tell "others" my views. So we can exchange ideas or refute one another's ideas giving the source of the information?
     
  14. erelsgl

    erelsgl Member

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    73
    Very interesting, thank you!
     
  15. AbdulMuhd

    AbdulMuhd New Member

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    erelsgl, It should be understood that Muhammad abrogated most of the important verses after "MEDINA." Medina was the turning point in Islamic history. If you want to know more about this you will have to research Muhammad and Medina and Mecca.

     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    29,973
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Given that your religion appears to be anti-Muslim vitriol and your reading an exercise in Islamophobic selection bias, you may well be right.
     
  17. AbdulMuhd

    AbdulMuhd New Member

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    It is you who is tarring me as anti-Muslim. I am not anti-Muslim. I am not Islamophobic. You are libelling.
     
  18. jarofthoughts

    jarofthoughts Empirical Curmudgeon

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    3,756
    The moment you postulate an all-knowing (omniscient) god you have logically removed the option of him ever changing his mind about anything.
    Changing your mind is the result of either the availability of new information or new realizations based on the information you already have.
    Knowing and understanding everything prevents either of those from taking place.
     
  19. AbdulMuhd

    AbdulMuhd New Member

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    71
    jarofthoughts, this is a quote:

    002.115
    YUSUFALI: To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.
    PICKTHAL: Unto Allah belong the East and the West, and whithersoever ye turn, there is Allah's Countenance. Lo! Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing.
    SHAKIR: And Allah's is the East and the West, therefore, whither you turn, thither is Allah's purpose; surely Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.

    Following your revelation, it was Muhammad who made the "abrogations" with the guidance of Allah. But if we apply the same logic, the same applies to ALL the religions of mankind.
     
  20. jarofthoughts

    jarofthoughts Empirical Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    3,756
    All I'm saying is that if your god is omniscient he cannot also change his mind about anything ever.
    Personally, I have no horse in that race.
    I'm an atheist so I don't believe in any of that stuff anyway. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
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