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Can God be Experienced?

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
With all due respect, you have no idea if my suspicions are true, since I stated that the types of experiences people have told me about were similar to viewing a breathtaking nature scene, experiencing the birth of a child, or altering their state of conscious via psychedelic drugs.

What you describe is something completely different, a NDE that occurred when you were a toddler. How old are we talking, 3-4 years old? My question would be how accurate can a memory from that age, especially a memory of what images your brain projected when deprived of oxygen and near death, actually be? Memories are a funny thing. What we remember is often distorted over time. In fact, the more we recall a memory, the more distorted it becomes, because we tend to forget certain details that did happen and add certain details that actually didn't happen. Any memory you had when you were 3-4 has been filtered over time by what you've learned and been taught since the incident actually happened.

Nope.

That's not how it works. Sorry, but your biased opinion does not at all affect the world around you.

It happened. It's etched in my mind forever. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Are you, or were you ever a Christian?

I'm asking because it's usually an arrogant Christian thing to do, to go around telling everyone their spiritual experiences are wrong. I seldom get that from others.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Can god be experienced?

How do you know?





____________________________________
And now, the haunting vocals of the stunningly beautiful Michal Elia Kamal....

I believe that God can be experienced, but I do not know how that can be demonstrated to others or even substantiated internally for the person claiming the experience. For example, a mentally ill person could believe they have experienced God when it was their mental state that created the experience. I cannot even say whether they did or did not have the experience they believe they had. There is nothing preventing a mentally ill person from having actual experiences. It is just that their claims would tend to be doubted with greater weight.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Nope.

That's not how it works. Sorry, but your biased opinion does not at all affect the world around you.

It happened. It's etched in my mind forever. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Are you, or were you ever a Christian?

I'm asking because it's usually an arrogant Christian thing to do, to go around telling everyone their spiritual experiences are wrong. I seldom get that from others.

That's not how it works. Sorry, but your biased opinion does not at all affect the world around you.

True, my biases do not effect the world around me, just as your biases don't effect the world around you. You're clearly biased about considering your memories from your NDE to be an actual experience with god, while I'm trying to objectively consider alternate possibilities.

It happened. It's etched in my mind forever. And there is nothing you can do about it.

I have absolutely no doubt that it's etched into your mind and that you are 100% convinced that it happened. And quite frankly I have no desire to 'do' anything about it. I'm simply pointing out that from my perspective there are other possible explanations for your experience. Having studied how memories are made and how often they can be inaccurate, I have no choice but to consider such possibilities.

Are you, or were you ever a Christian?

I am not nor have I ever been a Christian or a follower of any other religion.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm simply pointing out that from my perspective there are other possible explanations for your experience. Having studied how memories are made and how often they can be inaccurate, I have no choice but to consider such possibilities.
There have to be other explanations because nobody ever meets God, according to my beliefs,

The other problem is if one person's spiritual experiences contradict another person's they cannot both be right, so who do we believe? What reason do we have to believe a personal experience that cannot ever be proven to have happened? Granted, Messengers of God cannot prove that God spoke to them either, but at least there is some evidence that supports their claims.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Our conscious awareness or experience of ourselves and our environment.

There's an objective reality only a few experience. Two conscious, subjective realities plus an apparently unconscious one that we experience; and several others rarely experienced.
What is ourselves and what is our environment?
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
That's not how it works. Sorry, but your biased opinion does not at all affect the world around you.

True, my biases do not effect the world around me, just as your biases don't effect the world around you. You're clearly biased about considering your memories from your NDE to be an actual experience with god, while I'm trying to objectively consider alternate possibilities.

It happened. It's etched in my mind forever. And there is nothing you can do about it.

I have absolutely no doubt that it's etched into your mind and that you are 100% convinced that it happened. And quite frankly I have no desire to 'do' anything about it. I'm simply pointing out that from my perspective there are other possible explanations for your experience. Having studied how memories are made and how often they can be inaccurate, I have no choice but to consider such possibilities.

Are you, or were you ever a Christian?

I am not nor have I ever been a Christian or a follower of any other religion.

I see conflicting thoughts in your reply.

You state:

"my biases do not effect the world around me"

Yet you persist in trying to affect me with your biased opinion because it doesn't fit what you originally stated. That definitely bothers you. So you claim to be an "expert" on memory and keep trying to tell me that I'm "wrong". But I am not. So again, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Sorry to break this to you, but there is more to this universe than you will never know about, because of your refusal to see what is really there.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Nope.

That's not how it works. Sorry, but your biased opinion does not at all affect the world around you.

It happened. It's etched in my mind forever. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Are you, or were you ever a Christian?

I'm asking because it's usually an arrogant Christian thing to do, to go around telling everyone their spiritual experiences are wrong. I seldom get that from others.

That's not how it works. Sorry, but your biased opinion does not at all affect the world around you.

True, my biases do not effect the world around me, just as your biases don't effect the world around you. You're clearly biased about considering your memories from your NDE to be an actual experience with god, while I'm trying to objectively consider alternate possibilities.

It happened. It's etched in my mind forever. And there is nothing you can do about it.

I have absolutely no doubt that it's etched into your mind and that you are 100% convinced that it happened. And quite frankly I have no desire to 'do' anything about it. I'm simply pointing out that from my perspective there are other possible explanations for your experience. Having studied how memories are made and how often they can be inaccurate, I have no choice but to consider such possibilities.

Are you, or were you ever a Christian?

I am not nor have I ever been a Christian or a follower of any other religion.

There have to be other explanations because nobody ever meets God, according to my beliefs,

The other problem is if one person's spiritual experiences contradict another person's they cannot both be right, so who do we believe? What reason do we have to believe a personal experience that cannot ever be proven to have happened? Granted, Messengers of God cannot prove that God spoke to them either, but at least there is some evidence that supports their claims.

I re-posted this thread of conversation to show how you jumped into my conversation with "QuestioningMind" so you can get in a jab at me.

That is stalking, do you realize that?

Look, it took me forever, but I got you to FINALLY admit that you have no proof that your beliefs came from any "god". So give it up already. Time to move on and quit going around trying to tell people who or who not you think God speaks to. You don't know. End of story.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Can god be experienced?

Yes. When bodily-egoic tensions dissolve, the peace and bliss that is brahman is known unmistakably.

We experience the infinite fleetingly in orgasm, or sometimes when we wake up at 4:00 AM in morning, or sometimes when our attention falls on a distant eagle flying. During these fleeting moments the veil of ego self is absent and we taste the infinite — albeit too fleetingly. Some people come in touch with the infinite with help of entheogen.

We also unknowingly taste the lap of the infinite every night in deep sleep.

Some rare yogic practitioners succeed to consciously put aside the egoic veil and abide in the aforementioned peace in state of waking deep sleep. Such teachers have left testimonies which we may choose to ignore or test for ourselves. These blessed souls, it is said, can envision and bring to life the infinite in their chosen form — as guardian-teacher, as friend, or even as the beloved.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Look, it took me forever, but I got you to FINALLY admit that you have no proof that your beliefs came from any "god". So give it up already. Time to move on and quit going around trying to tell people who or who not you think God speaks to. You don't know. End of story.
You have no proof that your so-called God experiences came from any "god". So give it up already. Time to move on and quit going around trying to tell people that God spoke to you and gave you the answers to everything spiritual.

You don't know that God spoke to you, all you have are beliefs. End of story.

I will tell people who or who not I "believe" God speaks to and there is nothing you can do about it.

The question you should ask yourself is why my beliefs bother you so much.
People who are FIRM in their own beliefs are not bothered by the beliefs of other people.
People who are confident that they had a God experience do not need to prove it to others.
That is precisely WHY Baha'u'llah never cared if people believed Him and He never tried to convince anyone.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
You have no proof that your so-called God experiences came from any "god". So give it up already. Time to move on and quit going around trying to tell people that God spoke to you and gave you the answers to everything spiritual.

You don't know that God spoke to you, all you have are beliefs. End of story.

I will tell people who or who not I "believe" God speaks to and there is nothing you can do about it.

The question you should ask yourself is why my beliefs bother you so much.
People who are FIRM in their own beliefs are not bothered by the beliefs of other people.
People who are confident that they had a God experience do not need to prove it to others.
That is precisely WHY Baha'u'llah never cared if people believed Him and He never tried to convince anyone.

See!

And THERE it is!

JUST as I kept on stating, and you kept on denying!

Now everybody can clearly see how you think your beliefs, that has NO PROOF of coming from any "god", gives you the right to go around telling everyone what spiritual experiences they can or cannot have, based on your unfounded beliefs!

And BTW - As to this:

"Baha'u'llah never cared if people believed Him and He never tried to convince anyone."

Ha, ha, ha...

Then WHY did he start a religious cult that has no true spiritual answers?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Now everybody can clearly see how you think your beliefs, that has NO PROOF of coming from any "god", gives you the right to go around telling everyone what spiritual experiences they can or cannot have, based on your unfounded beliefs!
Show me where I told anyone what spiritual experiences they can or cannot have.
"Baha'u'llah never cared if people believed Him and He never tried to convince anyone."

Ha, ha, ha...

Then WHY did he start a religious cult that has no true spiritual answers?
a) He did not start a religious cult, He founded a new religion, and
b) He had true spiritual answers
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Show me where I told anyone what spiritual experiences they can or cannot have.

So dishonest, you just did in the last spaz to me. Do you have memory problems?

a) He did not start a religious cult, He founded a new religion, and
b) He had true spiritual answers

You are contradicting yourself yet again. You just stated this:

"Baha'u'llah never cared if people believed Him and He never tried to convince anyone."

Then you admit that he started a cult/"religion". Now that doesn't make any sense. Nobody would go thru all that trouble of inventing a bombastic religious doctrine meant to bedazzle everyone, claiming it came from "god", which in itself proves he wanted people to believe him, and then start a cult, UNLESS he wanted people to believe his dogma.

And since you again claim "He had true spiritual answers", then WHY are you so AFRAID to meet my challenge?

Here it is AGAIN:

Now everyone reading these posts, THIS is the simple challenge that is being AVOIDED:

"Funny how ALL of these so called messengers always speak/write using bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people but completely lack any true spiritual substance.

True spiritual matters are about:

God, his true spiritual nature, laws, judgment process, and plan for all souls.

One's soul, what is it really?

The spiritual realm/universe.

The physical realm/universe.

Why are the spiritual realm and physical realm separate?

What will the "afterlife" be like?

There's way more, but all amounting to the great question of the WHY of it all, and your place in all of it, for what purpose?

Now cry all you want, but you will find more straight answers on some of those topics in my posts than you will NEVER get from studying your "messenger's" gobbledygook for a lifetime."

*********************************
So here's your chance. Go and get me any passages from your Baha'u'lla "messenger" that you think answers/describes those matters and we'll see if it's really any clear and concise answers/descriptions, or just bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There's levels? Are those like the planes?
Yep -- planes of existence, levels of consciousness, realities -- call them what you will. It's not a well developed field of study, and an agreed upon technical lexicon hasn't yet developed.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
I see conflicting thoughts in your reply.

You state:

"my biases do not effect the world around me"

Yet you persist in trying to affect me with your biased opinion because it doesn't fit what you originally stated. That definitely bothers you. So you claim to be an "expert" on memory and keep trying to tell me that I'm "wrong". But I am not. So again, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Sorry to break this to you, but there is more to this universe than you will never know about, because of your refusal to see what is really there.

I'm simply expressing my views on the subject. So sorry if you're convinced I'm trying to 'effect you' or that you incorrectly think that it 'bothers' me in some way. I'm certainly not attempting to claim that I'm an 'expert on memory'. All I said is that I've done some research on the matter and those who ARE experts tend to agree that our memories are very often not accurate.

And please don't be sorry... I guarantee you that you're not telling me anything that I don't know. I'm quite aware that the universe holds mysteries that I'll surely never discover.
 
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