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Featured Can Enlightenment Be Taught?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Sep 7, 2019.

?
  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    I'll email you within a few days, Audie. I've
    promised a couple other people a description
    as well, it's about time I freed up some
    time to keep my promise.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I looked up "satori experience", having heard that term
     
  3. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    Kinda. It's certainly an experience of certain stimuli being interpreted in a particular manner.

    While I completely get that it is an individual experience that cannot be relayed in normal communication, to me, being "taught" is rarely about direct communication. It is about setting up the right circumstances for understanding to take place.

    A teacher is no different than a particular pattern in water or a potent vivid dream: a stimulus that activates brain patterns leading to a new understanding of reality.
     
  4. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I won't answer for @Sunstone, but despite several attempts on this forum, I cannot relay an accurate portrayal of such an experience..
     
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  5. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Also Kensho. Sometimes the two are
    distinguished, sometimes not.
     
  6. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    I'll copy you too, Salix, when I email Audie.
    My description will be inadequate, but
    perhaps rudimentary enough to help
    her understand something of what's
    involved.
     
  7. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I may have experienced it, in mirror image opposite
     
  8. Link

    Link Member

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    Yes, but it requires application of knowledge learned.
     
  9. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    To further illustrate my point, those who teach often come to the realization that they are only a part of process of something being "taught." A student reads a textbook, sees something in the media, is given a lecture, discusses the subject with friends; all these are a part of being taught. It is the experience of life.

    Let's take Sunstone's example of sex: Reading about sex is completely different from having sex. But this reading is a part of the process of being a sexual being. Some never read about it. Some only read about it.

    The same goes for enlightenment (if we are regarding enlightenment as the experience of being "It"- realization of your relationship with everything else). People come about it in different ways: there are many teachers. Maybe for some it isn't taught. And maybe for some enlightenment has a different meaning. Like sex, enlightenment- the mystical experience- is an expression of something that is ultimately inextricable from what we are.

    Those who have never had it still participate.
     
  10. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    I have an experience where it feels as though I have been watching myself from a distant place but am suddenly thrust into the awareness of my body. There is a particular, contradictory and awe-inspiring sensation of loss of self with a sudden immediate and overblown sense of self. I have some of the sensations like I am about to pass out- narrowing of vision and dizziness- but I am very much aware and awake.

    This often occurs when I am quietly contemplative and focusing on my surroundings. I can sometimes bring it about purposefully but the more powerful experiences are spontaneous.

    This is different from other mystical experiences I have, and I suspect it has to do with the brain condition where the state of the parietal lobe changes and we exerience "self" in different ways.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Enlightenment can only be taught to those who are ready for it.

    For those who are not ready, it's just spinning wheels in the mud.
     
  12. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't that when the scientific revolution transformed Europe?
    If so we are still in the Enlightenment - it keeps our lights on and
    keeps disease and hunger at bay. Excellent stuff - let's not knock
    it.
     
  13. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    I think I will disagree with the majority...teaching something doesnt mean the ability of the teacher to guarantee success, but if a teacher has lead more people to enlightenment than an average person has who isnt trying then that teacher has some claim to truth.

    Aside from group instruction my understanding is that Zen teachers meet individually with their students to provide individualized instruction.
     
    #33 sealchan, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  14. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    How does Andrew Newberg establish that someone has had this experience?
     
  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Rather than hearing a third party explanation, here's Andrew explaining it himself.

     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Wow! I have a ton of things to say about this but no time at the moment. I need to process just how it is this applies to me and spell it out. I will be back.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I love this way of stating it!
     
  18. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Even if enlightenment* could be taught, it won't be remembered.

    *Whatever that is.....
     
  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    it's a flashpoint within the fuel source.



    Matthew 25:1
    Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

    or


    Luke 12:49
    I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
     
  20. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    I never experienced any enlightenment when I was a Christian in my youth.
     
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