Can Authenticity of Quran be proven?

[InvestigateTruth]

Can Authenticity of the Quran be proven logically and scientifically? Can it be proved it is all what Muhammad had said, and it was written as Muhammmad had said, and remained unchanged? Or is this just a belief held by those who believe in the Quran?


Note: As a Bahai, I believe the Quran is Authentic and a revelation from God, because Bahai Scriptures confirms this.

However In our modern day, to prove authenticity of a document, it has to be signed by the Author, or the handwriting of author can be verified to match with the original script. None of these are available regarding the Quran (to the best of my knowledge) as there is no Quran in handwriting of Muhammad, nor, Muhammad ever signed or sealed a copy of Quran to confirm it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Can Authenticity of the Quran be proven logically and scientifically? Can it be proved it is all what Muhammad had said, and it was written as Muhammmad had said, and remained unchanged? Or is this just a belief held by those who believe in the Quran?


Note: As a Bahai, I believe the Quran is Authentic and a revelation from God, because Bahai Scriptures confirms this.

However In our modern day, to prove authenticity of a document, it has to be signed by the Author, or the handwriting of author can be verified to match with the original script. None of these are available regarding the Quran (to the best of my knowledge) as there is no Quran in handwriting of Muhammad, nor, Muhammad ever signed or sealed a copy of Quran to confirm it.

May it is that in Muhammad's time, the oral tradition was still alive, and all spiritual teaching was given orally? so to actually find the original words of Muhammad in his handwriting would be impossible since it was not common at the time to write it down. (people were more used to remember it by recite the teaching and remembering it by heart), Humans today do struggle to memorize teachings because it is so many other media to "help" us remember. so we actually do not need to remember anything with our brain anymore, since computers, phones, and pads do it for us.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

May it is that in Muhammad's time, the oral tradition was still alive, and all spiritual teaching was given orally? so to actually find the original words of Muhammad in his handwriting would be impossible since it was not common at the time to write it down. (people were more used to remember it by recite the teaching and remembering it by heart), Humans today do struggle to memorize teachings because it is so many other media to "help" us remember. so we actually do not need to remember anything with our brain anymore, since computers, phones, and pads do it for us.

Yes, so, how can it be proved this Quran is indeed authored by Muhammad, and exactly contains what Muhammad had intended, with nothing more or less?

 

[Windwalker]

Can Authenticity of the Quran be proven logically and scientifically? Can it be proved it is all what Muhammad had said, and it was written as Muhammmad had said, and remained unchanged? Or is this just a belief held by those who believe in the Quran?

There is no way to see what any of the other copies of it said, because they were all ordered to be burned by the caliphate Uthman in 650 AD because there were multiple, conflicting versions of the Quran in circulation. The only copy that remains is the one he decided shouldn't be burnt up in fire. He wanted to see a single version of the Quran for the sake of ending debates among Muslims with different texts. So, no, there are no checks and balances, comparing later versions with early ones. They're all gone. All Muslims have is the one Uthman decided should survive. Is the Qur'an Pure? Book Burning in Early Islam

I see it kind of like Christians believing that God gave them the Bible, when in reality it was a later decision of church leaders of what to keep and what to throw out. If one wishes to believe that was divinely directed, that's purely on faith alone. The same is true here as well.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes, so, how can it be proved this Quran is indeed authored by Muhammad, and exactly contains what Muhammad had intended, with nothing more or less?

The Quran holds the teaching for Muslims, that is what is important, for us who are not following the teachings of Muhammad, it should not worry us too much if it is his teaching or not. That is for the Muslims who follow the Quran to think about. I can not say every word in the Quran is exactly as Muhammad did say them, just as most of the religious texts that have been translated they will contain some wrong words or meanings since languages are not always in sync when it comes to the meaning of words.
But since at least many Muslims say one should only read the Quran in Arabic, they might have kept the words as close to Muhammad's true words as possible. and as far as I know, many Muslims don't put their own interpretation, they keep it as the words say, so they read it and understand it very similar to each other.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Can Authenticity of the Quran be proven logically and scientifically? Can it be proved it is all what Muhammad had said, and it was written as Muhammmad had said, and remained unchanged? Or is this just a belief held by those who believe in the Quran?


Note: As a Bahai, I believe the Quran is Authentic and a revelation from God, because Bahai Scriptures confirms this.

However In our modern day, to prove authenticity of a document, it has to be signed by the Author, or the handwriting of author can be verified to match with the original script. None of these are available regarding the Quran (to the best of my knowledge) as there is no Quran in handwriting of Muhammad, nor, Muhammad ever signed or sealed a copy of Quran to confirm it.

Actually, the authenticity of the Quran can be DISproven. All the earliest mosques face toward Petra rather than Mecca. At some point things changed and the manuscripts were altered.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There is no way to see what any of the other copies of it said, because they were all ordered to be burned by the caliphate Uthman in 650 AD because there were multiple, conflicting versions of the Quran in circulation. The only copy that remains is the one he decided shouldn't be burnt up in fire. He wanted to see a single version of the Quran for the sake of ending debates among Muslims with different texts. So, no, there are no checks and balances, comparing later versions with early ones. They're all gone. All Muslims have is the one Uthman decided should survive. Is the Qur'an Pure? Book Burning in Early Islam

I see it kind of like Christians believing that God gave them the Bible, when in reality it was a later decision of church leaders of what to keep and what to throw out. If one wishes to believe that was divinely directed, that's purely on faith alone. The same is true here as well.

I know apparantly there are stories that there were several Qurans, and uthman burned them all, and kept only one. How do we know this story is not fabricated?

 

[icehorse]

I know of a very famous author who - fairly recently - got in a LOT of trouble by suggesting in one of his novels that some of the verses had been tampered with. There were many, many Muslims around the world who thought this author should be killed for such a novel.

No one should take ANY book that seriously.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I know apparantly there are stories that there were several Qurans, and uthman burned them all, and kept only one. How do we know this story is not fabricated?

All the earliest mosques face Petra, not Mecca. Something changed, and the Quran had to be changed to reflect it.

 

[Windwalker]

I know apparantly there are stories that there were several Qurans, and uthman burned them all, and kept only one. How do we know this story is not fabricated?

In the link I shared he cites the Islamic scholar's sources it comes from. I don't think this is disputed. Link: Is the Qur'an Pure? Book Burning in Early Islam

 

[InvestigateTruth]

In the link I shared he cites the Islamic scholar's sources it comes from. I don't think this is disputed. Link: Is the Qur'an Pure? Book Burning in Early Islam

I don't think Not being disputed, necessarily proves the story is true. But Even if that story is true, can it be proved, any of those versions of Quran, or the currently widespread Quran, is actually authored by Muhammad?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

All the earliest mosques face Petra, not Mecca. Something changed, and the Quran had to be changed to reflect it.

Who and when they changed the Quran?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't think Not being disputed, necessarily proves the story is true. But Even if that story is true, can it be proved, any of those versions of Quran, or the currently widespread Quran, is actually authored by Muhammad?

Go for the simplest explanation unless you have proof to the contrary. There is no need to have a miraculous writing of the Quran.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Who and when they changed the Quran?

You can research it for yourself. I would google muhammed petra. You might look specifically for Dan Gibson, the researcher on early Mosques. Til 724 all mosques faced Petra. There was a time of confusion. Then from 822 all mosques faced Mecca. There are plenty of websites and videos on this information. Or if you doubt the veracity of the videos and websites and want something more scholarly, you can simply read the actual book they are discussing:
Gibson, Dan (2017). Early Islamic Qiblas: A survey of mosques built between 1AH/622 C.E. and 263 AH/876 C.E. Vancouver: Independent Scholar's Press. ISBN 978-1927581223. Imprint of CanBooks.ca

Here is the Video "The Sacred City" which Dan Gibson gave his imprimatur to. I don't normally give videos, as YouTube is highly unreliable. But this one is high quality, and recommended by the researcher.

 

[sooda]

Yes, so, how can it be proved this Quran is indeed authored by Muhammad, and exactly contains what Muhammad had intended, with nothing more or less?

This is silly.. We can't authenticate the authors of the Bible or the Torah either.

 

[sooda]

You can research it for yourself. I would google muhammed petra. You might look specifically for Dan Gibson, the researcher on early Mosques. Til 724 all mosques faced Petra. There was a time of confusion. Then from 822 all mosques faced Mecca. There are plenty of websites and videos on this information. Or if you doubt the veracity of the videos and websites and want something more scholarly, you can simply read the actual book they are discussing:
Gibson, Dan (2017). Early Islamic Qiblas: A survey of mosques built between 1AH/622 C.E. and 263 AH/876 C.E. Vancouver: Independent Scholar's Press. ISBN 978-1927581223. Imprint of CanBooks.ca

Here is the Video "The Sacred City" which Dan Gibson gave his imprimatur to. I don't normally give videos, as YouTube is highly unreliable. But this one is high quality, and recommended by the researcher.

Odd... I was told they prayed facing Jerusalem. I have never before heard they prayed to Petra.. What about the sister city Ma'dain Saleh?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Odd... I was told the prayed facing Jerusalem.

That's us Jews.

 

[sooda]

That's us Jews.

Did Muslims pray towards Jerusalem - Answers
Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's QuestionsMuslims_pray_towards_Jerusalem
Sep 20, 2010 · Yes, when prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was in Mecca (Makkah), He and all Muslims were praying towards direction of Al-Qods (Jerusalem). After immigration to al-Madinah (Medina) he was ordered, and all Muslims, by God (Allah in Arabic) to pray facing direction of Kaaba, or Mecca, or Saudi Arabia (depending where you are.

 

[sooda]

That's us Jews.

I know, but originally Muslims also prayed towards Jerusalem before they prayed towards Mecca.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't think Not being disputed, necessarily proves the story is true. But Even if that story is true, can it be proved, any of those versions of Quran, or the currently widespread Quran, is actually authored by Muhammad?

"Proves" is a strong word when it comes to any reconstructing of history. I think the best that can be said is "Has the greater supporting evidence", is more accurate. History is not something that is ever completely free of our subjective perceptions, then and now. It can't be treated like you're proving a math formula.

That said, that there appears to be multiple attestations of these divergent qurans, and the recorded history of the book burnings, along with the fact that the same thing happened in Christianity, ordering all other competing gospel stories be burned, I see little reason to doubt the truth of that. It falls right in line with what followers of a teacher do when they are trying to standardize a belief system in a new religion, placing administration and control over all other concerns.

But can any of those, even the ones that were burned, be truly said to have been written by Mohammed himself? Maybe some of them, or maybe none of them. The only way to assess that is to look at other known writings of Muhammad, if any exist, then do a critical analysis of authorship, like scholars do with any of the other texts from antiquity. A great deal of what is claimed to have been written by other authors in history, turns out to be not written by them. In the Bible for instance, half of the books attributed to the Apostle Paul, were not written by him, but others using his name written many years after Paul's death.