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Can Anyone Solve God’s Garden of Eden Parable?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Athena Plato, May 16, 2017.

  1. Athena Plato

    Athena Plato "Who do you say I am?"

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    - Garden-of-Eden.jpg
    “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”--The Book of Genesis (Original Sin), King James Bible.

    If, a Desire for Knowledge is Good, Children are not a Curse, and God Blessing Her Favorite Creation with Conception and 'The Mother of All Living' Delivering All God’s Children--Is why God Created Humans in the First Place---Why do some Christians Believe Eve’s Desire for God’s Wisdom was a Sin?---Especially when Eve Proved to God, She could Read and Reason, it was not?

    Thanks, for the Correction George.
     
    #1 Athena Plato, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Who said they all believe that today? The ones I talk to seem a lot smarter than that
     
  3. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    The sin was that God told them not to eat the fruit from the tree and they ate it anyway. Sin is breaking God's rules.
     
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  4. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I notice that Athena's religion is "Canada". Nice to know they have their own religion.
     
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  5. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    What I've always found interesting about Michelangelo's painting is the sexually suggestive positioning of Adam and Eve to each other, and the fact that they had bellybuttons.

    [​IMG]
    Just saying. :shrug:

    .
     
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  6. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Given the parallels in Babylonian myths and likely origins in Mesopotamia in the Tigris Euphrates River Valley. One possibility for the lost Eden may be the aridification of the region and the loose of the verdant paradise that once surrounded these river valleys. There is evidence of abandoned cities, dried up rivers and settlements in the nearby deserts and arid lands. This lost paradise also happened around the Nile and the Palestine region.
     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    That setup has all the qualities of a cluster f....
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    For example?
     
  9. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    And that "Satan" has boobs. Maybe Mike thought like I did, that Lilith being the snake to get her revenge against her ex is a much more enjoyable story? :)
     
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  10. omega2xx

    omega2xx Well-Known Member

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    Eve's sin was not desiring to know good and evil, it was disobeying God. To think man can prove anything to God is foolishness.
     
  11. Athena Plato

    Athena Plato "Who do you say I am?"

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    o-GOD-facebook.jpg

    “How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?” ---Proverbs, 1:22, The King James Book of Life and Knowledge.

    You misunderstood the Book of Genesis Parable. God (the Author) took the shape of the Serpent to test Humans ability to reason and make wise decisions. Eve’s desire for knowledge and passing God’s test was a demonstration of Her reasoning and intelligence. Thinking it was a Sin and that children and marriage are God’s curse is foolishness.

    If, God asked us to murder another person or destroy another country or eat our own children, and we blindly obeyed God and did it; would not only prove that we have learned nothing, and that we are incapable of reasoning or making our own decisions; but it is also God’s proof that the difference between Good and Evil is Man; who is Evil and Ignorant. His misinterpretation of Ancient Scripture explains the current status of Man today. The exact curse of ignorance God prophesized in Genesis and Jesus forgave in the New Test-ament. Now, 2,000 years later look at what Man has become? He pretends that He believes in God and that He understands God’s Wisdom, but in reality, He knows nothing at all. He is a hopeless foolish atheist.

    In conclusion, to think that Man does not have to prove to God that He is Good and not foolish; is in my opinion, Mankind’s greatest Sin.
     
  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Got your own little story going here. Interesting in a goofy kind of way, but hardly worth noting. My only question is, what is it with posting all the nudity? Even your avatar is Bouguereau's Birth of Venus.

    .


    .
     
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  13. Athena Plato

    Athena Plato "Who do you say I am?"

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    Athena's Republic.jpg

    “This form is the one that allows a philosopher-in-training to advance to a philosopher-king (or queen). It cannot be clearly seen or explained, but once it is recognized, it is the form that allows one to realize all the other forms.”-Plato’s Republic, Higher Learning Academy, ‘Form of the Good’ and ‘Spirit of the Bride’ (The beginning of the Old Testament, and the end of the New Testament.)

    My goofy interpretation and Avatar speaks for Herself, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. --Genesis, 1:1,2, Birth of Aphrodite, King James Bible. (Can you open your eyes and see the Spirit of God on the face of the waters?)

    My goofy preference for nudity is the result of Aphrodite’s desire for peace and love. It's also an Ancient copyright and trademark of the Republic, and signifies my great love of the verse, “And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”--Genesis, 2: 25, King James Bible.

    On a final note, you mentioned that my own little story is interesting but not worth noting, but that fact that noted it in your post and responded to it in the first place, is worth noting. Thank-you for your wise and loving comments. God Bless.
     
    #13 Athena Plato, May 22, 2017
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  14. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    "Hardly worth noting." ;)

    .
     
  15. outlawState

    outlawState Deism is dead

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    If was wisdom that she was not entitled to. Many women lust after things that they are not entitled to, whether it be money, extra-marital relations, etc etc. You could equally well phrase the question, why is it wrong to lust after money, since money is good? Because it is God who provides, and we are required to seek his will first, and if we do, he takes care of us.

    The wisdom that Eve attained did her no good. She was cast out of Eden, ordered to submit to her husband in all things, and additionally given pain in child bearing; and then she died. It's like giving a five year old child the power to execute people. It's a power that he should never have been given as he is not capable of wielding it.
     
  16. Wheel08

    Wheel08 New Member

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    Peace.

    Just for consideration:

    It is a parable.

    The woman in the garden wanted to be seen as wise (your eyes shall be opened) and so spoke evil of another person (partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil....death and life are in the power or hand of the tongue and those who love it shall eat the fruit of it) based on her commandment (neither shall you touch it) that she added to God's.

    She presented her added commandment as God had commanded it when He did not ("God has said..."). We are not to add to God' s word. She judged another (you shall be as "gods"...Elohim....that is, judges) based on her added commandment ("neither shall you touch it") and erroneously thought that she was doing it for God ("For God does know...").

    Genesis 3:2-5 KJV
    (2) And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
    (3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    "you shall not surely die" should be literally translated: dying, you shall not die....or rather "killing, you shall not die". We "kill" another when we hate others....judging them as evil doers because they do not follow our particular commandment. There is no peace when we do this (you shall surely die). The law of sin and death is fixed in nature just like gravity.

    The woman wanted to be seen as a wise judge for God and so spoke evil of another...judging them (as an evil doer). A judge knows who or what is good and evil. So she became judge, jury and executioner of another when she partook of it and believed in the lie that she was doing it for God.

    (4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
    (5) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


    Death and life are in the power (hand) of the tongue...and as all of us know, the tongue is the weaker vessel compared to the "hidden man of the heart". The tongue gets us all into trouble if we do not bridle it.

    Proverbs 18:
    (20) A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.
    (21) Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

    "finding a wife" = finding a meek tongue.

    (22) Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

    the "poor" uses meek words....few words. The "poor in spirit" are those who are poor in breath as they speak few words while the "rich" uses a multitude of words to speak against what they hear. The "rich" are "rich" in words ,,,,a multitude of words...and use harsh words.

    (23) The poor useth intreaties; but the rich answereth roughly.
     
  17. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I'd probably study it's context for the time it was written to get any real idea to what this story signifies.
     
  18. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    It is more of a prophecy.

    1. Law is already set up because the creation of humans. It is because the same set of Law is applicable to angels. It signifies that God has a universal set of Law applicable for both angels and humans. In the end, both Satan and Adam broke the law.

    2. Suppressing the knowledge of good and evil is to establish innocence. God won't go into the law details to Adam, to tell him what murdering and raping is. Instead, the best way to protect him from breaking the law is to keep him as innocent as possible. This worked before Satan came in.

    3. Adam sinned because of influence from Eve and subsequently Satan. This is the whole setup of today's world. Humans falling away from God because they are influenced by other humans, and subsequently Satan. Each society has a culture influencing every individual. Say, a muslin won't take the path of Christianity simply because he's influenced by his culture since childhood. On the other hand every human is descended from Adam and Noah who know God very well. It is at a certain point where a descendant decided to leave God and later his descendant became culturally away from God. Satan persuaded one to leave the belief of God and to form the culture of his descendants. This is the common setup of this world.

    4. Humans choose to rely on knowledge, it becomes a source of reasons to leave God. This human behavior is prophesied in the story. As you said, knowledge itself is not a bad thing, however the limitation of knowledge is that it is for this reality only. You can't rely on human technologies to get to know what you next reality could possibly be. Yet you think that you can! That's actually why you think that you have the knowledge which opens your eyes and for you to make a judgment and draw a conclusion on "God doesn't exist". That's how you apply your knowledge which is supposed to only work inside this reality but misused in judging something outside this reality. To put it another way, our science is experiment based. Our science can only reach a knowledge piece provided that humans can go there to to do experiments. That's why our knowledge is only limited inside our this reality. Science cannot go outside to investigate whether hell or heaven exists because we can't go outside to do experiments or observations.

    5. God on the other hand hides the Tree of Life from humans' reach. Such that we can't know if life will continue beyond our physical death. We can't go beyond this reality to have a sneak peek on what the next reality could possibly be.

    6. We can survive our next reality (living with God) only when we have the 2 most critical elements which are faith and obedience. Adam fell because he has not enough faith to rely on the Word of God, and he's not obedient to God's commands. That's why later on till today, humans are measured against a covenant with Law and Faith to determine who can live the future reality (i.e., go to heaven). That's why the contents of a covenant are always about Law and Faith.

    In a nutshell, if you choose to rely on your knowledge to make a decision about what could possibly happen after death, then the same day you choose to eat of it the same day you shall surely die. This is the biggest prophecy in the story of Eden.
     
  19. Wheel08

    Wheel08 New Member

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    Peace.

    Just a few more points to consider.

    A breakdown of the lie:

    You shall not surely die” should be literally translated as “killing (or dying), you shall not surely die”. By “killing” another with our tongues (which is speaking evil of another), we shall have peace and safety supposedly. Yet, there is no peace in doing so.

    “For God does know….” = we are doing God “service” for killing others supposedly in His name or authority. We are doing these things supposedly in His authority which is not having love for another as commanded by Him.

    “…then your eyes shall be opened…” = you shall be seen as wise for doing so.

    “ ….you shall be as gods (that is, JUDGES) knowing good and evil” = you shall be as judges (in God’s name or authority). A judge knows who or what is good and evil and those who do such things think that they are actually doing God service in His name (we do these “wonderful works” in your Name).

    Genesis 3:4-6 KJV
    (4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
    (5) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


    The woman was desirous of her own vain glory: wanting to be seen as wise and so spoke evil of another in judgment of others. It was pleasant to the eyes….she took pleasure in doing unrighteousness. Death and life are in the power (hand) of the tongue which is the weaker vessel to the “hidden man of the heart” and those who love it shall eat the fruit of it whether it be death or life. We are to choose life and not death. The hidden man of the heart is supposed to rule over the tongue.

    (6) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    This is paraphrased in James 4. Those who speak evil of another are being JUDGES (“you shall be as gods knowing good and evil”) and are not doing the “law” to have love for another.

    James 4:11-12 KJV
    (11) Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

    There is only one Lawgiver. God is the only Lawgiver.

    Yet, the woman in the garden added her own “law” to God’s commandment (neither shall you touch it): “…and the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
    But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die”.


    There is one Lawgiver (God) who is able to save and destroy. Yet, the woman in the garden used her added law (which she presented it as though God commanded it) to “destroy” another with her own judgment.

    (12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

    As Jesus pointed out: those who do these things (“killing you” with their false accusations, judgments) think that they are doing God service.

    John 16:1-3 KJV
    (1) These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
    (2) They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
    (3) And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor m
    e.

    Again in James....Out of the same mouth proceeds blessing of God and cursing of other men. It can’t be both ways. Either make the tree good and its fruit good or the tree bad. Man certainly does not bless God by cursing other men supposedly in His authority by making false accusations and labeling them "evil doers".

    James 3:8-18 KJV
    (8) But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
    (9) Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
    (10) Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing.
    My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
    (11) Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
    (12) Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.


    The woman in the garden desired to be seen as wise and partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. She wanted to be seen as wise and spoke evil of another using her added commandment (neither shall you touch it) as a basis for doing so. She believed the lie and practiced it…continuously eating from that “tree”.

    Yet, who is the truly wise who is endued with knowledge among us? Let him show it by his good conduct, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.

    The woman envied another and desired to be seen as wise and exalted herself and spoke evil of another (thereby partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil) ….bad conduct. The tongue is in the transgression against the commandment of God. The tongue is a world of evil that can't be tamed.

    (13) Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
    (14) But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.


    She acted out in the earthly wisdom (out of the envy and strife within her heart) and spoke evil of another rather than behave of the heavenly wisdom which is from above.

    (15) This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
    (16) For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
    (17) But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
    (18) And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make pea
    ce.

    Of every tree of the garden we are to freely eat of. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, etc. Against doing such things there is no law but rather we are to be doing these things and live. Do these things and live.

    Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
    (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
    (16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

    But there is the law of sin and death of which we are warned not to be partaking of.

    (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
     
  20. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    As I pointed out in another thread, at the moment when Eve ate the apple she had no knowledge of good and evil, hence she was incapable of forming an intention to do wrong, hence she was incapable of sin.

    But disobedience doesn't come into it. Yahweh told A&E not to eat from that tree BECAUSE if they did, they'd die the same day. He gives no other reason. There was nothing for Eve to disobey.

    And Yahweh wasn't angry because they ate the fruit. He says out loud (Genesis 4:22) that he threw them out of the Garden 'lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.'
     
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