Can any JWs answer this?

[Samael_Khan]

Of course the tetragrammaton could never be pronounced as Jehovah, there as no J sound in it. In fact, the ¨J´ apparently didn´t exist in English till around the 16th century. I do a lot of research for my studies with them !

Which is why Jehovah is a transliteration and not a translation of the name. J used to be pronounce Y and then English started pronouncing J as the J we use today. So the Jehovah can be pronounced the way it is done in english. Plus JW's don't care much about the pronunciation. They only use Jehovah because they say it is popular. Below is the different ways they pronounce it in different languages. :

https://assetsnffrgf-a.akamaihd.net/assets/m/102017211/E/art/102017211_E_cnt_2_xl.jpg

I suspect heavily that the reason why they don't use Yahweh is because of their Freemason links, which is a whole nother story.

In my view, denominationalism is just majoring in minors. Apostolic Christianity was simple and clear.

I believe some denominations are composed of people who, for whatever reason, must have a special badge to show they are right, and others are wrong, it is an ego thing.

I was an Elder in the denomination from which JWś sprang, the SDA´s. They too have their very special badge, the sabbath and their very own prophet.

Ahh.. the good ol' Seventh Day Adventist church. I actually became a Christian because of them. I watched all of Walter Veiths Revelation Seminar videos (which I still think are awesome. It is very thought provoking because of the connections he makes.) and I read the Great Controversy by Ellen White. My cousin is an elder with them.

Just a slight correction: Russell who started the bible Student Movement, which later became Jehovahs Witnesses, was influenced by Jonas Wendell who was a member of the Millerite Adventist movement not the SDA. The SDA are an offshoot of the Adventist Movement. So the JW's and SDA have common ancestry but didn't spring from each other. Many JW's I know actually think that the SDA sprang from the JW's too.

I rejected all of that, and just try and be an obedient primitive Christian.

Certainly Christ was all about love, but did you know that He used the word repent more than the word love ?

That is good, as the fundamentalist groups have a Pharisaic quality to them.

Judgement, repentance and love are all linked. Indeed one must be repentant of their bad deeds in order to be a Christian.

 

[shmogie]

Which is why Jehovah is a transliteration and not a translation of the name. J used to be pronounce Y and then English started pronouncing J as the J we use today. So the Jehovah can be pronounced the way it is done in english. Plus JW's don't care much about the pronunciation. They only use Jehovah because they say it is popular. Below is the different ways they pronounce it in different languages. :

https://assetsnffrgf-a.akamaihd.net/assets/m/102017211/E/art/102017211_E_cnt_2_xl.jpg

I suspect heavily that the reason why they don't use Yahweh is because of their Freemason links, which is a whole nother story.

Ahh.. the good ol' Seventh Day Adventist church. I actually became a Christian because of them. I watched all of Walter Veiths Revelation Seminar videos (which I still think are awesome. It is very thought provoking because of the connections he makes.) and I read the Great Controversy by Ellen White. My cousin is an elder with them.

Just a slight correction: Russell who started the bible Student Movement, which later became Jehovahs Witnesses, was influenced by Jonas Wendell who was a member of the Millerite Adventist movement not the SDA. The SDA are an offshoot of the Adventist Movement. So the JW's and SDA have common ancestry but didn't spring from each other. Many JW's I know actually think that the SDA sprang from the JW's too.



That is good, as the fundamentalist groups have a Pharisaic quality to them.

Judgement, repentance and love are all linked. Indeed one must be repentant of their bad deeds in order to be a Christian.

As I understand it, Russell was meeting with a group, of which most would become the founders of the SDA church. The issue of the trinity arose, and because most in this study group confirmed the trinity, and EGW had a ¨ vision¨ confirming it, he moved on.

I find it interesting that what the SDAś take as symbolic, the JWś take as literal and vice versa.

Yes, the SDAś came out of the Millerite movement. When Christ didn´t return in 1844, and his numbers from D and R looked right, folk were really discouraged. A couple of guyś, I don´t recall their names, allegedly had a vision in a cornfield, from which was born that strange thing, the investigative judgement. This kept Miller and his preaching, and his followers reputable, there had been only a slight error.

Seventh Day Adventism was about born then, but the final brick in the wall was the sabbath.

Joseph Bates, a wealthy retired sea captain, joined the study group, and he was a sabbatarian, and made his impassioned pitch for sabbath keeping. Perhaps he got the idea from the Seventh Day Baptists.

As I said, he was wealthy and ......................................................EGW had a vision confirming sabbath keeping.

The foundation was in place for the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

 

[calm]

Of course the tetragrammaton could never be pronounced as Jehovah, there as no J sound in it. In fact, the ¨J´ apparently didn´t exist in English till around the 16th century. I do a lot of research for my studies with them !

In my view, denominationalism is just majoring in minors. Apostolic Christianity was simple and clear.

I believe some denominations are composed of people who, for whatever reason, must have a special badge to show they are right, and others are wrong, it is an ego thing.

I was an Elder in the denomination from which JWś sprang, the SDA´s. They too have their very special badge, the sabbath and their very own prophet.

I rejected all of that, and just try and be an obedient primitive Christian.

Certainly Christ was all about love, but did you know that He used the word repent more than the word love ?

Also the W/V came much later. The W was a double U then. And Yah later became Yeh.
Yad(Y)-Hey(AH)-UaU(U)-Hey(AH) are the 4 letters of the name.
If one connect all the letters now, then the name YAHUAH comes out. That's the true name of the father. Yahuah means BEHOLD (A) HAND, BEHOLD (A) NAIL.
YAH and YAHU are the two short variants.

It is interesting that the President of Israel bears the name Yahu in his name: NetanYahu.
The well-known website "Yahoo" also uses the name of God. This is blasphemy, they insult God by using his name for a website.
Also almost every prophet has the name of God in his name.


Zephaniah- Real Name is TsphanYAHU= “The Secret is YAHUAH”

Haggai- Real Name is ChaggaYAH= “The Celebration is YAHUAH”

Zechariah- Real Name is ZacharYAHU= “YAHUAH Remembers”

Malachi- Real Name is MalakiYAH= “Messenger of YAHUAH”

Job- Real Name is YAHshub= “YAHUAH Will Return”

Nehemiah- Real Name is NechemYAH= “Consoled by YAHUAH”

Matthew- Real Name is MatithYAHU= “The gift is YAHUAH”

John- Real Name is YAHUchanon= “YAHUAH is Grace”

.......

 

[Samael_Khan]

As I understand it, Russell was meeting with a group, of which most would become the founders of the SDA church. The issue of the trinity arose, and because most in this study group confirmed the trinity, and EGW had a ¨ vision¨ confirming it, he moved on.

I find it interesting that what the SDAś take as symbolic, the JWś take as literal and vice versa.

Yes, the SDAś came out of the Millerite movement. When Christ didn´t return in 1844, and his numbers from D and R looked right, folk were really discouraged. A couple of guyś, I don´t recall their names, allegedly had a vision in a cornfield, from which was born that strange thing, the investigative judgement. This kept Miller and his preaching, and his followers reputable, there had been only a slight error.

Seventh Day Adventism was about born then, but the final brick in the wall was the sabbath.

Joseph Bates, a wealthy retired sea captain, joined the study group, and he was a sabbatarian, and made his impassioned pitch for sabbath keeping. Perhaps he got the idea from the Seventh Day Baptists.

As I said, he was wealthy and ......................................................EGW had a vision confirming sabbath keeping.

The foundation was in place for the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

I always understood it as Russell walking into an Adventist meeting, being revived spiritually and leaving afterwards. The JW's do whitewash their history so we only ever had a summary of what happened. So you could actually be correct.

I find fascinating the similarity between the two faiths eschatology wise. I do prefer the SDA interpretations because they deal with typology whereas these days JW's distance themselves from that.

I always understood the foundation of the SDA's as Ellen White. It is interesting that others had visions too.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Yahuah means BEHOLD (A) HAND, BEHOLD (A) NAIL.

This I have always found awesome. And the JW's never reference it at all. Obviously because of its implications.

If you guys have a problem with using Jehovah as the JW's do, do you then have a problem with all the other names pronounced using the modern English J, such as Jesus?

 

[Road Less Traveled]

Being a rebellious apostate and heretic to pretty much everything was freeing. I would gladly love to be shunned from any institution.

I understand some things.. such as I wouldn’t want anyone or anything in my literal house or bodily house for example if they weren’t of a specific character and nature. Yet.... the man laws and chains that these institutions place or try to place on others are absurd. They are not good.

That is how most people are tricked from a simple boy seeing a hurting girl, and knowing she is most vulnerable so they can swoop in with their comfort and kind words, hero complexes, and get laid. Or a girl taking advantage of someone’s wealth. This expands to many other clever ways. The vulnerable, hyper-emotional, and biased are easy prey. Also, making someone else dependent on you so they can control them. A lot of people get married and even have children with people just because they feel safer in making someone dependent on them, controlling them, so they are less likely to ever leave them. They feel their wife or husband is their ‘possession.’ A lot of people have children just so they can live vicariously through them or control them. Aware or unaware. The ‘I have them now’ mentality. And if they wake up a little to their partner being that way, then their partner will just guilt trip them into staying for more, make empty promises with futile words, threats, fear etc. Make them feel like they owe something, or are indebted. A lot of institutions are no different.

Also, my closest biological family are no different than anyone else’s in ways. If someone in my biological family wanted to shun me for not following their commands... or not following the commands that they do, so be it. No loss to me. Could give two tosses what anyone thinks or may think, even my closest biological family.

All of this takes a lot of courage and strength to build up to, to free oneself of.... and it’s very real how twisted and disturbing it all is from the common man all the way up the ranks of hierarchy. Saddening.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Being a rebellious apostate and heretic to pretty much everything was freeing. I would gladly love to be shunned from any institution.

I understand some things.. such as I wouldn’t want anyone or anything in my literal house or bodily house for example if they weren’t of a specific character and nature. Yet.... the man laws and chains that these institutions place or try to place on others are absurd. They are not good.

That is how most people are tricked from a simple boy seeing a hurting girl, and knowing she is most vulnerable so they can swoop in with their comfort and kind words, hero complexes, and get laid. Or a girl taking advantage of someone’s wealth. This expands to many other clever ways. The vulnerable, hyper-emotional, and biased are easy prey. Also, making someone else dependent on you so they can control them. A lot of people get married and even have children with people just because they feel safer in making someone dependent on them, controlling them, so they are less likely to ever leave them. They feel their wife or husband is their ‘possession.’ A lot of people have children just so they can live vicariously through them or control them. Aware or unaware. The ‘I have them now’ mentality. And if they wake up a little to their partner being that way, then their partner will just guilt trip them into staying for more, make empty promises with futile words, threats, fear etc.

Also, my closest biological family are no different than anyone else’s in ways. If someone in my biological family wanted to shun me for not following their commands... or not following the commands that they do, so be it. No loss to me. Could give two tosses what anyone thinks or may think, even my closest biological family.

All of this takes a lot of courage and strength to build up to, to free oneself of.... and it’s very real how twisted and disturbing it all is from the common man all the way up the ranks of hierarchy. Saddening.

Your post is making me think of how institutions like these are like abusive relationships.

 

[calm]

This I have always found awesome. And the JW's never reference it at all. Obviously because of its implications.

If you guys have a problem with using Jehovah as the JW's do, do you then have a problem with all the other names pronounced using the modern English J, such as Jesus?

I don't use the name Jesus. I use the real name of him ( YAHUSHA ), but because not everyone knows his real name I use Jesus on the internet so people know who I mean.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I don't use the name Jesus. I use the real name of him ( YAHUSHA ), but because not everyone knows his real name I use Jesus on the internet so people know who I mean.

That makes sense. You are consistent. Nice.

 

[calm]

That makes sense. You are consistent. Nice.

The name Je-sus means "earth pig". The Je comes from the Greek (Ge) and means earth. Sus comes from the Latin means pig.
www.sabbathcovenant.com/doctrine/sus_is_latin_for_pig.htm

The name Je-hovah means "earth-disaster". As already said, Je means earth and Hovah comes from (modern)Hebrew and means disaster.
Strong's Hebrew: 1943. הֹוָה (hovah) -- a ruin, disaster

I must admit, however, that this can also simply be coincidence. But it is questionable.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

Your post is making me think of how institutions like these are like abusive relationships.

A lot of equivalences. Just comes with knowing every single simple or subtly intricate way to psychologically manipulate or control someone(s.) A lot of ways in which making them think that they are free also.

Takes a lot of strength, courage, fearlessness, and even trust to break free, just run away, escape. But first has to come the awareness as to what’s going on.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The name Je-sus means "earth pig". The Je comes from the Greek (Ge) and means earth. Sus comes from the Latin means pig.
www.sabbathcovenant.com/doctrine/sus_is_latin_for_pig.htm

The name Je-hovah means "earth-disaster". As already said, Je means earth and Hovah comes from (modern)Hebrew and means disaster.
Strong's Hebrew: 1943. הֹוָה (hovah) -- a ruin, disaster

I must admit, however, that this can also simply be coincidence. But it is questionable.

That is crazy. I have never heard of those translations in my life.

 

[Samael_Khan]

A lot of equivalences. Just comes with knowing every single simple or subtly intricate way to psychologically manipulate or control someone(s.) A lot of ways in which making them think that they are free also.

Takes a lot of strength, courage, fearlessness, and even trust to break free, just run away, escape. But first has to come the awareness as to what’s going on.

Very true. Getting people aware is the most difficult part.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

Very true. Getting people aware is the most difficult part.

Perhaps glimpses of intuition arise in them and they just shun that too, because they were psychologically trained to... perhaps telling the evil to go away when they’re telling something good to go away.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Perhaps glimpses of intuition arise in them and they just shun that too, because they were psychologically trained to... perhaps telling the evil to go away when they’re telling something good to go away.

That is definitely the case. I had that a lot when I was a JW. But my faith rested on a few foundational beliefs and therefore every other belief could be excused. Once one of those foundations crumbled, my eyes were open and I left.

It has happened to many ex cult members as well.

 

[shmogie]

I always understood it as Russell walking into an Adventist meeting, being revived spiritually and leaving afterwards. The JW's do whitewash their history so we only ever had a summary of what happened. So you could actually be correct.

I find fascinating the similarity between the two faiths eschatology wise. I do prefer the SDA interpretations because they deal with typology whereas these days JW's distance themselves from that.

I always understood the foundation of the SDA's as Ellen White. It is interesting that others had visions too.

I suspect that the SDAś are far ahead of JWś in whitewashing their history.

IN the 80ś thee was much agitation in the church regarding righteousness by faith, alone.

An Adventist pastor named Walter Rea wrote a meticulously researched book called ¨ The White Lie¨, next to the Bible this is the most influential book in my life. It, in essence, it confirmed that EGW was a fraud.

This exploded in the church like a nuclear bomb. At around the same time some SDA neurologists and and neuro surgeons published a lengthy article stating that EGW´s visions were the result of a brain injury caused by a rock that was thrown at her when she was a child, leaving her with periodic seizures which display exactly like she was described while having a vision.

The attempted coverup of these things was massive, and pitiful.

Since the whole enchilada hangs on EGW, if she is diminished, so is the church.

There are writings of hers that were never published and are guarded by the general conference faithful. I have heard that if released, they would be harmful to the church.

Anyway, there was a huge meeting at glacier view in Colorado. It was once and for all to determine the churchś position on righteousness by faith. It lasted for three or four days, and we who believed in Luther΅s concept were represented By Dr. Desmond Ford, a great Australian theologian.

They spoke reiterated righteousness by faith as a two step proposition. First, positional righteousness, Accepting Christ, then sanctification as part of salvation. Not you are saved and good works follow because of that, but after justification, works determine your salvation. Failure to do good works, voids salvation.

With all the other stuff, this was the massive straw that broke the camels back.

Thousands of us left the church. The pastor of my church left. Academics left, it was a mass exodus that the church leaders were happy with, they could now reassert their control as the teachers of a false Gospel were gone.

Phoenix has a mega church, I think Baptist, that is pastored by an ex Adventist preacher who was part of that exodus.

Sorry to prattle on, but I very rarely have the chance to discuss these matters with someone who might find them interesting and understands the background of the events.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I suspect that the SDAś are far ahead of JWś in whitewashing their history.

IN the 80ś thee was much agitation in the church regarding righteousness by faith, alone.

An Adventist pastor named Walter Rea wrote a meticulously researched book called ¨ The White Lie¨, next to the Bible this is the most influential book in my life. It, in essence, it confirmed that EGW was a fraud.

This exploded in the church like a nuclear bomb. At around the same time some SDA neurologists and and neuro surgeons published a lengthy article stating that EGW´s visions were the result of a brain injury caused by a rock that was thrown at her when she was a child, leaving her with periodic seizures which display exactly like she was described while having a vision.

The attempted coverup of these things was massive, and pitiful.

Since the whole enchilada hangs on EGW, if she is diminished, so is the church.

There are writings of hers that were never published and are guarded by the general conference faithful. I have heard that if released, they would be harmful to the church.

Anyway, there was a huge meeting at glacier view in Colorado. It was once and for all to determine the churchś position on righteousness by faith. It lasted for three or four days, and we who believed in Luther΅s concept were represented By Dr. Desmond Ford, a great Australian theologian.

They spoke reiterated righteousness by faith as a two step proposition. First, positional righteousness, Accepting Christ, then sanctification as part of salvation. Not you are saved and good works follow because of that, but after justification, works determine your salvation. Failure to do good works, voids salvation.

With all the other stuff, this was the massive straw that broke the camels back.

Thousands of us left the church. The pastor of my church left. Academics left, it was a mass exodus that the church leaders were happy with, they could now reassert their control as the teachers of a false Gospel were gone.

Phoenix has a mega church, I think Baptist, that is pastored by an ex Adventist preacher who was part of that exodus.

Sorry to prattle on, but I very rarely have the chance to discuss these matters with someone who might find them interesting and understands the background of the events.

By all means carry on. I am very interested.

The white washing that you are describing is massive. It pretty much covers up the false foundation belief in the church.

I would be interested in getting my hands on the books against EGW. I read up once on her brain injury issue, but I never explored that deep enough. And I was unaware of the mass exodus. Because of the SDA's focus on the 10 commandments, especially the Sabbath, I always thought that they believed lack of good works equals no salvation.

The JW's had similar Exodus's. The first one was more of a split. It was after Russell died and Rutherford took over. The JW's say that arrogant brothers wanted to take leadership out of selfishness therefore weren't meant to be with God's people. The other side of the story is that Russell never intended for Rutherford to take over the group and he did so underhandedly and they were upset because apparently he compiled and wrote the Finished Mystery without the others in the group knowing.So there was a schism there.

The mass exodus happened after 1975. The organisation publications were making statements which implied that Armageddon would occur in 1975. I have read them so I can confirm this. Brothers were selling their property and quitting their jobs in anticipation. Then the end didn't come and thousands were disillusioned and left. Today the organisation says that the rank and file were jumping to conclusions so blames them, but looking at the Watchtowers from that time, that is a lie.

Ray Frantz's book Crisis of Conscience also has and is causing JW's to leave the group. He was a Governing body member and revealed a lot. A lot of it I cannot prove but I can keep it in mind and see patterns using his info.

The whole belief in the anointed and the organisation is based on the understanding that 1914 was the time that Jesus invisible reign started. It was the time of his presence. What JW's don't know is that Russell based his conclusion, not on bible prophecy, but on measuring the Pyramids. I some of his books so I know that the pyramids were important to his theology. Others who have his books can confirm how he got to his conclusion. When JW's discover that gem, then they no that the group isn't the Truth.

The JW's and the SDA's are related, so I am not surprised that similar cover ups and controversies are happening among them.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

That is definitely the case. I had that a lot when I was a JW. But my faith rested on a few foundational beliefs and therefore every other belief could be excused. Once one of those foundations crumbled, my eyes were open and I left.

It has happened to many ex cult members as well.

We’ve all shunned or ignored that good, intuitive faculty inside many times. It’s never easy having a psychological stronghold, a wall come tumbling down. Hard enough to escape, and then being brave enough to admit that afterwards. The transition gets smoother and easier over time when one becomes more stronger and fearless. Then the renouncing, or any loss becomes effortless and painless with anything. Genuinely happy to see anyone escaping anything like that.

I’ve personally never had it to the point I became too far gone, where I shunned/ignored that intuitive faculty so much that it just perhaps died and let me be. I drank a lot of psychological kool-aid myself with many different things. After enough nudging and the feeling that ‘something just doesn’t seem right about all of this,’ finally and eventually ended up listening. So I do have empathy on those who perhaps have fallen victim and are too far gone. Sad to see. It’s a powerful force. And it’s very sad seeing a lot of other things transpire with a lot of people and families due to this.

 

[Samael_Khan]

We’ve all shunned or ignored that good, intuitive faculty inside many times. It’s never easy having a psychological stronghold, a wall come tumbling down. Hard enough to escape, and then being brave enough to admit that afterwards. The transition gets smoother and easier over time when one becomes more stronger and fearless. Then the renouncing, or any loss becomes effortless and painless with anything. Genuinely happy to see anyone escaping anything like that.

I’ve personally never had it to the point I became too far gone, where I shunned/ignored that intuitive faculty so much that it just perhaps died and let me be. I drank a lot of psychological kool-aid myself with many different things. After enough nudging and the feeling that ‘something just doesn’t seem right about all of this,’ finally and eventually ended up listening. So I do have empathy on those who perhaps have fallen victim and are too far gone. Sad to see. It’s a powerful force. And it’s very sad seeing a lot of other things transpire with a lot of people and families due to this.

It is definitely a powerful force. I actually want to check if there are any negative psychological repurcussions for not being honest with ones self. I know about cognitive dissonance but I suspect that depression and other psychological trauma happens.

It is indeed sad to see.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

It is definitely a powerful force. I actually want to check if there are any negative psychological repurcussions for not being honest with ones self. I know about cognitive dissonance but I suspect that depression and other psychological trauma happens.

It is indeed sad to see.

A good question would be, at what lengths would one be willing to go to... to try and pull someone out of the fire or prevent someone from entering the fire? Should we even try?