Can a rich Church or man get into heaven?

[Greatest I am]

Can a rich Church or man get into heaven?
Matthew 19:23
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Genesis 13:2
And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

There seems to be a theme throughout scripture that says that wealth is not a good thing yet the Church amasses wealth for it’s own sake and glorification.
Can a Church that does not practice what it preaches lead us to heaven or is wealth actually a good thing.
What comes to mind is Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail.
In selecting the cup of Christ, the proper cup was the poor man’s cup. In contrast, if asked to select the cup of the Church, he would have selected the riches cup.
One has to wonder if the Church is right or if Jesus was.
Many say they have faith in Jesus but few follow His line of thought when their wealth is in question.
Would God reject our rich Church?
Is our Church imperfect because of it’s wealth?
Will God reject the rich man?
Your thoughts?
Regards
DL

 

[3.14]

nah depends on how you got the wealth, the reason most become and stay wealthy is the reason they won't go to heavon

 

[monta]

Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Just give me a camel a needle a cleaver an industrial blender and a syringe and I say I can do it easily enough, you might want to stand back though

 

[DadBurnett]

I don't understand one part of your question - about a "rich Church" going (or not going) to heaven; what's that all about?

 

[Greatest I am]

nah depends on how you got the wealth, the reason most become and stay wealthy is the reason they won't go to heavon

This indicates that there is a moral way to get rich.

I cannot think of it. Can you?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't understand one part of your question - about a "rich Church" going (or not going) to heaven; what's that all about?

Churches are rich. Those riches are controlled by men or Popes, if you will. Do they go to heaven?

Should a Church along with it's adherents walk it's talk.

Regards
DL

 

[Breathe]

I guess it depends on the mindset of the one with the richest.

Most become selfish when they have lots of wealth, and many can often become stingy and greedy, willing to sacrifice on principles and do whatever it takes to make, or keep, the money they have obtained. I guess it could be said it's not money per se, but the greed that comes with it that makes it difficult, in Jesus' eyes, for the rich to get into heaven.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I think you are missing the concept of God's blessings. You see, the more I give, the more blessings I receive.

 

[logician]

No, the rich cannot get into heaven, I suggest you give all your money to me to insure you entry into heaven, I have already resigned myself to hell.

 

[keithnurse]

"The rich" are a convenient scapegoat for people who don't want to take responsibility for their own lives. Do rich people do bad things? Of course! So do poor people. BTW not all churches are rich. Many of them struggle to survive.

 

[ayani]

G I A ~

i've long since ceased necessarily equating church or churches with living, fruitful, sincere Christian faith.

you're right- a lot of these churches are in it for money.

Jesus does say that we can't serve both money, and God. we either love and work for money, or we love and work for God even at the expense of money, still trusting Him to supply our needs, and provide for us. where these churches and leaders will stand when they face God at the end of their lives is up for God to know, and judge.

the most fun, blessed church meeting i've ever been to was at a believer's house. a whole bunch of us squeezed into her living room with a couple guitars, our Bibles, song books, and prayers. we all wanted to be there, and it was simple, edifying, and fun.

so far as Christian faith goes, discipleship isn't about money. it isn't about going to or belonging to a certain church (though it is good and right to gather with other believers). it's about knwoing, trusting, and following God's Son. it's about where one stands in relation to Him, and how one serves Him and magnifies Him day to day.

 

[Dunemeister]

This indicates that there is a moral way to get rich.

I cannot think of it. Can you?

If you amass your wealth through honest means without oppressing or abusing the poor, I'd say that would count as a moral way to get rich. Now, it's true that our entire economic system has deeply rooted injustices in it, but we cannot do business outside of it. All we can do is to play the game as fairly and righteously as possible, doing out utmost not to take advantage of or abuse anyone else. And that can be done. It's also possible for people to try to reform the system they are working under.

As to the question of the OP generally, I think the way to understand the text in question is that riches make the here and now one's primary focus. But Jesus calls people to gather riches in heaven, which is to say to be concerned about the things God is concerned about. The problem is not with riches per se. Rather, the problem is that administering and caring for great riches (actually, probably even modest ones) can cause us to ignore what God considers essential: care for one's neighbour.

Now of course it's true that the church hasn't lived up to its calling very well. There are flashes of brilliance, but perhaps one could say that, overall, we get a failing grade. My response is, of course we do. Does that make us hypocritical? Probably. But it also may mean that the church has extremely high moral standards, which makes it very difficult to maintain them consistently. (Those without moral standards are the only ones free of the charge of hypocrisy.) Although this reality has provided some a pretext for ignoring the church or for abandoning her, I don't think that's an adequate response. In fact, I see it as deceitful and deeply hypocritical in itself. For if you abandon the church because she isn't perfect, you demonstrate a lack of love, which is another form of imperfection. So really it's trading one hypocrisy for another.

 

[keithnurse]

Isn't it bigotry to say that all or most rich people are immoral? or more immoral than the rest of us?

 

[Dunemeister]

Isn't it bigotry to say that all or most rich people are immoral? or more immoral than the rest of us?

That's not the point of what Jesus is saying. He's saying that riches beguile us and distract us from true riches: loving our neighbour. He's NOT saying that rich people are more immoral than poor people. Poverty is not a virtue as such. If the poor people were suddenly to have great riches, Jesus would issue the same warning to them.

 

[keithnurse]

That's not the point of what Jesus is saying. He's saying that riches beguile us and distract us from true riches: loving our neighbour. He's NOT saying that rich people are more immoral than poor people. Poverty is not a virtue as such. If the poor people were suddenly to have great riches, Jesus would issue the same warning to them.

Sorry, I did not make it clear. I was not saying that Jesus said rich people are more immoral than poor people. I was responding to the way some people, especially liberals, talk about rich people.

 

[Greatest I am]

I think you are missing the concept of God's blessings. You see, the more I give, the more blessings I receive.

Then it should not take you too long to feed all the children that starve to death daily.

I will watch the news for that in the next few weeks.

I hope your mind is not as simple as your statement implies.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

"The rich" are a convenient scapegoat for people who don't want to take responsibility for their own lives.

Hogwash.

Jesus was clear about giving to the poor. He did not say give so much and retain a few million for personal needs.

Most wealth is amassed through exploitation of labor and markets.
This makes the accumulation of wealth immoral.

Are there moral ways to amass great wealth and what are they?

BTW not all churches are rich. Many of them struggle to survive.

I agree and see some of the benefits to community that churches bring. It is their view of their man created God that I do not like. The poor one's walk their talk much more than the rich one's.

Regards
DL

 

[Dunemeister]

I hope your mind is not as simple as your statement implies.

Regards
DL

I hope your reading skills improve.

 

[Greatest I am]

G I A ~

i've long since ceased necessarily equating church or churches with living, fruitful, sincere Christian faith.

you're right- a lot of these churches are in it for money.

Jesus does say that we can't serve both money, and God. we either love and work for money, or we love and work for God even at the expense of money, still trusting Him to supply our needs, and provide for us. where these churches and leaders will stand when they face God at the end of their lives is up for God to know, and judge.

the most fun, blessed church meeting i've ever been to was at a believer's house. a whole bunch of us squeezed into her living room with a couple guitars, our Bibles, song books, and prayers. we all wanted to be there, and it was simple, edifying, and fun.

so far as Christian faith goes, discipleship isn't about money. it isn't about going to or belonging to a certain church (though it is good and right to gather with other believers). it's about knwoing, trusting, and following God's Son. it's about where one stands in relation to Him, and how one serves Him and magnifies Him day to day.

Wow, I think this is the first time we agree.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

If you amass your wealth through honest means without oppressing or abusing the poor, I'd say that would count as a moral way to get rich. Now, it's true that our entire economic system has deeply rooted injustices in it, but we cannot do business outside of it. All we can do is to play the game as fairly and righteously as possible, doing out utmost not to take advantage of or abuse anyone else. And that can be done. It's also possible for people to try to reform the system they are working under.

As to the question of the OP generally, I think the way to understand the text in question is that riches make the here and now one's primary focus. But Jesus calls people to gather riches in heaven, which is to say to be concerned about the things God is concerned about. The problem is not with riches per se. Rather, the problem is that administering and caring for great riches (actually, probably even modest ones) can cause us to ignore what God considers essential: care for one's neighbour.

Now of course it's true that the church hasn't lived up to its calling very well. There are flashes of brilliance, but perhaps one could say that, overall, we get a failing grade. My response is, of course we do. Does that make us hypocritical? Probably. But it also may mean that the church has extremely high moral standards, which makes it very difficult to maintain them consistently. (Those without moral standards are the only ones free of the charge of hypocrisy.) Although this reality has provided some a pretext for ignoring the church or for abandoning her, I don't think that's an adequate response. In fact, I see it as deceitful and deeply hypocritical in itself. For if you abandon the church because she isn't perfect, you demonstrate a lack of love, which is another form of imperfection. So really it's trading one hypocrisy for another.

Good rhetoric but no workable solution.

To love a church is idol worship. To not look for that perfect one is to place something else above God thus breaking the first commandment.

Jesus was clear about giving to the poor. He did not say give so much and retain a few million for personal needs.

Regards
DL