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Can 500+ Eyewitnesses Be Wrong?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by michel, Sep 4, 2005.

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  1. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    Without physical evidence it is all hearsay. No matter how many witness' there were.
     
    #121 Radar, Sep 7, 2005
  2. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    King James Version is the final authoritative inspired (or may be written) by God:bounce :jiggy: :D :biglaugh:
     
    #122 greatcalgarian, Sep 7, 2005
  3. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    Did God use the microsoft word processor and Dell computer to do the translation? And I have to assume that it is only into King James:162: :clap
     
    #123 greatcalgarian, Sep 7, 2005
  4. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of Greek expert in this forum, perhaps you should ask them to help you:bounce
     
    #124 greatcalgarian, Sep 7, 2005
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Here's the thing, Fluffy. The Bible is a very unique book, it was written:
    • over a period of 1500 years
    • by 40 men who hardly knew each other
    • on three continents
    • in three languages
    • by a variety of occupations (herdsmen to kings)
    • for a variety of reasons
    • in a variety of circumstances (on the run, as well as sitting at home
    And yet, there are no contradictions in doctrine, or the way they describe God, or the things that God tells them to do, or anything.

    Now that's quite an accomplishment. Try that today and see what happens, even super-simplifying it.
    • put just 5 people that do know each other in separate rooms
    • tell each one to write a chapter of a murder mystery
    • assign the chapters to each individual so they know where they are in the story
    • then compare the final product
    It would be total gibberish. A chaotic mess with no continuity.

    But not so with God's word. You have total agreement on every page.

    No other writing in history even comes close!

    And that's just ONE point. There are more. Such as mentioning empires that scientists swore didn't exist (to wit, the Hittites and the Medes). Calling a person by name (Josiah in 1 Kings 13:2) 340 years before he was born.

    Mentioning empires that would dominate the world, when at the time, the empire was still in its infancy.

    And I didn't even touch on the prophecies concerning Jesus.

    You have to admit, that's much more than coincidence!
     
    #125 michel, Sep 7, 2005
  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I got the evidence right here on my bookshelf. I even have a book that says Christopher Columbus sailed here from Portugal in 1492. I believe it, too.
     
    #126 michel, Sep 7, 2005
  7. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Of course it's contrary... starting with Genesis and working forward. google "biblical contradictions".

    So, what you are saying, is that Christopher Tolkin's sequals to the Dune saga are total gibberish and conflict with Frank's books? I don't see that as true at all.

    I've got a thread on Bible prophecy. You couldn't offer squat. Feel free to take this up there.
     
    #127 JerryL, Sep 7, 2005
  8. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    hmm...
    my faith was deveolped over a period of 10,000 years
    by people from three contenents
    with over 1,000 languages
    over 1,000 nations
    in a variety of occupations from priests to farmers to hunter gatherers
    in a variety of cercumstances... from within thier temples, out on the artic ice, or in thier lodges.. on the run, in war or in peace.

    and yet all the native religions have the same core of faith, regardless of cultural twists and takes on specific myths... we all discribe creator the same, we all hold the same ideals sacred.

    I don't eaven touch the prophecies that my people made and that came true...
    if it makes your religion true then surely it must work for mine as well.

    the increasingly inherant problem with tit for tat justification for a faith.

    wa:do
     
    #128 painted wolf, Sep 7, 2005
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    No it wasn't. The Earth has only been in existence circa 6000, as I showed in other posts.

    Your people have only been around for 4355 years (assuming the Flood occurred in 2350 bc.) - the same length of time as my people have (i.e. the Japhethites)

    That's nice, but re-read what I said. I'm talking about a single Book written from these sources that has no dis-unity of doctrine, despite the fact that the authors wrote independent of each other.

    Again that's nice, but you're leaving too much out. Did many of your authors die a martyr's death? Were they hounded relentlessly by their own people - even to the point of one wanting to take his own life? Was their authority challenged by their own brother and sister? Did one wrestle with the Creator of the Universe in hand-to-hand combat?

    If even one prophecy failed, what was done about it? My Creator has a 100% efficiency rating, and said if even one failed to occur, the prophet is a fake.

    Not even close.
     
    #129 michel, Sep 8, 2005
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    No thanks --- the Greeks have too high a margin-of-error ratio. I'll take it in English any day. Where the King James Bible differs from the Greek translations, the Greek translations are wrong.
     
    #130 michel, Sep 8, 2005
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That is a worthless and baseless assertion. What do you do when the Greek translation corresponds to a DSS Hebrew 'vorlage'? Presumably, you'll do exactly what you've done elsewhere - steadfastedly refuse to allow evidence, reason, and/or logic to interfere with willful ignorance.
     
    #131 Jayhawker Soule, Sep 8, 2005
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    When yousay you don't touch the prophecies, do you mean you don't want to look, or that you would not share them here?
     
    #132 michel, Sep 8, 2005
  13. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    Written testimony in a book, on a sheet of paper, found on a scroll, carved in a tablet is just hearsay written. All are wrothless with out physical evidence or proof. Muslims have a book but you don't follow that faith. LDS/Mormons have a book and you don't follow that faith. Jehova witnesses' have book you don't follow that faith.

    So written words never can be classified as evidence, it is testimonies, statements, and hearsay. There is no physical evidence to support your words.
     
    #133 Radar, Sep 8, 2005
    • Like Like x 1
  14. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Yes there is ... you're standing on it ... Psalm 19:1-6
     
    #134 michel, Sep 8, 2005
  15. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    You're joke! You never have anything intelligent to add. You keep going back to: because it is written in the bible. Again these are just written words.

    Psalm 19:1-6
    1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

    And this proves what? AV1611 you are a joke:biglaugh:
     
    #135 Radar, Sep 8, 2005
  16. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    The problem with the Bible is that there is no way to corraborate the evidence and no way to follow-up an investigation with eyewitnesses.
     
    #136 cardero, Sep 8, 2005
  17. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    Which begs the question, why is "biblical truth" even a subject for serious debate?
     
    #137 Darkdale, Sep 8, 2005
  18. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Maybe AV is actually a non-Christian who is tryign to discredit Christianity by such an inept position?
     
    #138 JerryL, Sep 8, 2005
  19. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    I could believe that!!!!
     
    #139 Radar, Sep 8, 2005
  20. Mr Spinkles

    Mr Spinkles Mr

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    *** MOD POST ***

    Please keep the discussion focused on the topic "Can 500+ Eyewitnesses Be Wrong?", not on other posters.

    *** MOD POST ***
     
    #140 Mr Spinkles, Sep 8, 2005
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