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Can 500+ Eyewitnesses Be Wrong?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by michel, Sep 4, 2005.

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  1. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Not whatever ... Whoever ...

    John 14:6 = JESUS SAITH UNTO HIM, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME.

    Jesus is the final Word on all matters spiritual.
     
  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Well the chief priests didn't think so. At least they gave 30 pieces of silver for Him.
     
  3. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Actually "true" is simply a state in binary logic which can be applied to factual claims.

    "Jerry", "AV", or "Jesus" are not factual claims, and therefore cannot be true or false.
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Fiction.
     
  5. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    exactly.

    For my birthday party last may, I hosted a spoon bending party. all my friends gathered and brought spoons. basically we meditated for a while, focusing energy, then releasing it throough focused inattention.

    some skeptics in the group kept laughing and interefering with the mediation, so it obvioulsy didnt work for them. But it worked for this other girl who before had practice with meditaion. the energy caused it to momentarily melt in the middle where her fingers where and she twisted it ever so easily.

    heres some pics!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    sorry if its too fuzzy.

    But it just proves that maybe Jesus wasnt the only miracle worker.
     
  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Then let me translate it so YOU'LL understand it:

    John 14:6 = JESUS SAITH UNTO HIM, I AM THE WAY, THE BINARY LOGIC, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME.

    How was that?
     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Fiction.
     
  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    That's a parlor trick that Uri Geller made famous.

    Back in the mid '80s, I believe it was, there was a special on TV called, I think, The NBC Million Dollar Challenge.

    On live TV, hosted by Bill Bixby, they brought into the studio 10 of the world's most renowned metaphysicians in 10 different categories.

    The idea was that if any of the 10 could reproduce their craft, live and on the air, they would receive a check for $1,000,000.00.

    I can only remember two of the ten:

    The first was a lady who could "read auras". The studio had 10 horizontal panels about 6 1/2 feet in height set up. They "cleansed" the area above them with red light, then told the lady to take her time and, if she could pick them correctly, she would win the money. She thought for awhile, then said there was someone behind all 10 panels. She was wrong. There was someone behind 1, 5, and 7 (or thereabouts).

    The last one was the world's leading dowsing expert. The studio put out 10 55-gallon barrels and told the man to pick which one(s) had water in them and which ones didn't.
    He failed.

    As a matter of fact, all 10 leading experts failed on live TV.

    Between each session, they had people like Penn and Teller showing how you can fake getting burned in a restaurant and so forth.

    One of the snippets was exposing how Uri Geller bent spoons and caused plants to start to grow from seeds in the palm of his hand.

    Bill Bixby then did the very same things himself to show it was a hoax.

    I, personally, in an adult class of 25 men and women, had them write a cartoon character and seal it in an envelop. I then, before opening the envelopes, shuffled them, then read each cartoon character before I opened the envelope up. I hit every one with a 100% accuracy. Only two people in the class knew how that trick was done, though.

    That is, until I explained it.

    People are very gullible in the area of metaphysics.
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Is this passage fiction, Deut?

    WHEN THE MOST HIGH DIVIDED TO THE NATIONS THEIR INHERITANCE, WHEN HE SEPARATED THE SONS OF ADAM, HE SET THE BOUNDS OF THE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
     
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Whilst others suffer from tunnel vision - they only see what they want to see.
     
  11. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    Yeah, except for the fact I saw it bend. whatever. AV, you only believe what you want to, and insult others who dont see it your way.

    well it definitly shows the nature of a person, how full of hubris they are if they cannot face the truth even when the see evidence.
     
  12. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Reproduceability alone is insufficient to establish something is a hoax.

    Very much. How many Christian miracles were reproduceable on the show? Any faith healings? Any mountain moving? Any communicating with Jesus?
     
  13. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Did you read my post? I saw it bend on TV when Bill Bixby did it too. It's just that prefacing that trick with meditation or concentration is a parlor trick to get it to look like it was a refocusing of energy that did it, when in actuality it was body heat creating a weak spot, along with moving it up and down to create a stress-point that eventually bends the spoon.

    And please get off this I'm insulting others kick. If I did, they'd know it. (Besides, I wouldn't last too long on this site, would I?) So if you think I'm insulting people, take it up with administration. Please.
     
  14. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    To echo this, yes, please. If a person believes a post is insulting, it is more conductive to peace if they simply use the 'report' link at the top of the post. This will save further hurt feelings and prevent threads from getting 'over-heated'.
     
  15. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Huh?

    Contrary to popular opinion among Charismatics and Pentecostals, the full title of the 5th book of the Bible is The Acts of the Apostles --- not The Acts of the Holy Ghost.
     
  16. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Feathers, I would like to know, and feel free to say it here publically, if people are using that report button with me in mind.
     
  17. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    No, it is not a fiction, it's a harmonization. Your KJV chose the wrong variant.
     
  18. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    The forum policy is to seperate the reported post from the person posting it. For example, if a post was reported and there was no offensive content, then it would obviously not deserve a warning or to be removed. As an example, if I said something offensive, anyone could report me and the person's concerns about that post would be taken seriously. It wouldn't matter what my religion was, what posts I'd made in the past, or what my relationship to other forum members is.

    I'm sorry that I've never been very good at explaining things. If you'd like me to go into further detail, I can PM you.
     
  19. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Oh, and to continue the point, the correct variant should more correctly be termed 'folklore'.
     
  20. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    In this respect AV is right. This is just a parlor trick, and you can find this out easily. The point where the spoon bends is right where the person was holding it, it does not bend anywhere else. This is because that point is where the hands heated it up. If the spoon was to melt as you say it did, then there would be some dripping (melting means the spoon was liquid at that point so some of it would have dripped.) Also if you take a spoon, just hold onto it as long as you did without any "focusing" as you call it, it would bend just as easily.

    But this brings up another idea for this topic. If 500 people saw a magician perform his act and thought he was using real magic, does this mean he was using real magic? =) Because I am sure there are more than 500 people who have witnessed the spoon bending trick first hand and thought it was real. Just something to think about...
     
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