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Can 500+ Eyewitnesses Be Wrong?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by michel, Sep 4, 2005.

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  1. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    In view of the fact that 1 Corinthians 15 mentions over 500 eyewitnesses to Jesus' resurrection, is that enough to convict Him of same?
     
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  2. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    Many people swear up and down they've seen UFOs, foxes possessing people, witches doing all matter of things, etc. I see no reason for that to be any more valid than those.
     
  3. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Yes, 500 people can be wrong.

    But more importantly: can one person saying there were 500 be wrong.

    When I time-traveled back to ancient Messopotamia, I was witnessed by more than 5000. Can they be wrong?
     
  4. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    But how many of them would actually die for that belief? And would the strongest empire on the face of the Earth at the time spend a large amount of their budget trying to supress it?

    I know the USA spent a lot of mony on Project Bluebook and SETI, but has anyone been executed for reporting UFO's?
     
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Why then was it taken so seriously by heads of state, etc.; and why did so many people die a premature death proclaiming it?
     
  6. drekmed

    drekmed Member

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    just out of curiosity, did any of the disciples write about jesus being seen by 500+ people after the resurrection? i tend to think more highly of their writings than Paul's because they actually met and went around with jesus. as far as i know, only paul states that he actually met jesus, there are no other writings by anybody but paul that i can find to back his claims.
     
  7. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Matthew and John were disciples of Jesus, and they confirm His resurrection. Paul mentions both of them as being part of the 500+ eyewitnesses.
     
  8. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    Just because someone would die for their beliefs it doesn't make them right. I hear this argued often; 'they'd die for it, they must be right!' People that aren't Christians die for their beliefs. Therefor, they must be right as well, yes? China has spent who knows how much trying to suppress or wipe out religions in their occupied areas, killing priests and sometimes burning them alive for trying to protect the temples.
     
  9. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Do you have historical accounts of 500+ people dyin ghaving claimed to have been at that event? Please present them.

    Pretty much everone in the assassian's guild died for their belief that they had witnessed paradise.

    Is that the standard you would be willing to adhere to? Anything anyone died for is true?

    More died proclaiming my appearance.

    And yet they never mention it, even though John's writings are after timothy's rendition for Paul.

    Was Matthew a deciple of Jesus? The text isn't exactly signed (none of the gospels are). I thought Matthew was a deciple of Peter.
     
  10. drekmed

    drekmed Member

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    im not questioning the actual resurrection, im questioning whether the disciples themselves wrote about how many people saw jesus after the resurrection, and whether paul himself can be considered a credible witness to the events as he claims. i have not been able to find anything other than the writings of paul that say anything on this matter, in fact i have not found paul mentioned by any of the disciples at all as having ever met jesus. if i am wrong, please correct me, and show me where they did.
     
  11. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    If dying for their beliefs makes someone right, then I'll add pagans, Buddhists, atheists... well, a whole lot of paths to the list of things that are right.
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    That is true. But what I'm saying is that taken as a whole, the evidence is surmounting.

    1. Paul says 500+ were eyewitnesses
    2. The Roman Empire took action to suppress this
    3. Some of the higher-ranking Jews themselves did, too
    4. Many, if not most, of these eyewitnesses were put to death
    With so much hostile witnesses against this claim, how did it grow?

    In other words, even those hostile to Christianity were admitting the resurrection.
     
  13. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Galatians 1:12 - 2:19 explains this. Paul, after conveying his story to the disciples, was given the "right hand of fellowship" by them.
     
  14. drekmed

    drekmed Member

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    when something is violently surpressed, by a corrupt government, that usually indicates to many that the view being surpressed is something the government doesn't want to get around, and therefore it has a chance of being the right thing to believe or do. it is the natural rebellious nature of humans.
     
  15. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Acts 7 for Stephen; Acts 12 for James, the brother of John; Hebrews 11:35-40; Fox's Book of Martyrs for many others.
     
  16. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    So you're arguing that because they tried to suppress a new cult (that's what it was at the time; I mean no offense to any Christians on the forum) and put to death those going against what they ordered, but it managed to survive through some believers until Constantine took it up, that it's right? :areyoucra I'm not going to touch that argument with a 10 foot pole.
     
  17. drekmed

    drekmed Member

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    yes, but galatians was writen by Paul, it still does not answer my question.

    did any of the disciples write about paul?
     
  18. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    You got that right! And what they were trying to suppress was the story of Jesus' resurrection. Even Herod (at the beginning of the story) committed and act of infanticide to keep this story from even happening in the first place.
     
  19. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    I find great interest in that verse too. Could you please list names of some of the 500 (with sources of names attached) and explain why not a single one of them came forward to colloborate Paul's claim.

    Furthermore, you do realize that Paul said he did not see the resurrection himself and converted on the road to Damacus (acts 9 9) at an unspecified later time when he claimed to have been visted by Jesus. Why do you think Paul did not convert at the time the 500 witness told him of this amazing endeavor but than turned around and assigned merit to it?
     
  20. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Yes, Peter did:

    ...EVEN AS OUR BELOVED BROTHER PAUL ALSO ACCORDING TO THE WISDOM GIVEN UNTO HIM HATH WRITTEN UNTO YOU; AS ALSO IN ALL HIS EPISTLES, SPEAKING OF THEM OF THESE THINGS... --- (2 Peter 3:15-16)
     
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