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Featured Call no man Father

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Spiderman, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Matthew 23:9
    And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

    What a stupid thing to say. This is why I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. I don't think God would contradict himself so much.

    Earlier he said honor your father and your mother.

    Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of "our father Isaac."
    Then Paul said
    1 Corinthians 4:15
    for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

    This is one example of why I had to say goodbye to the Bible. I don't think the God who created the universe would do such a pitiful job and contradict himself so much, were he indeed to give us a book written by him.

    Supposedly Jesus also said call no man your teacher. There's lots of contradiction there too. I don't believe Jesus ever said any such thing.

    I don't think he was that stupid.
     
    #1 Spiderman, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2017
  2. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Meaning I'm giving God the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't write a book so insane.

    I think it's a degrading insult to God to claim that the Bible is his word. How could God do such a pitiful job of writing a book?

    If someone accused me of writing the Bible, I would feel insulted to think someone was saying I was responsible for a book that led so many people into opposite directions and confusion!
     
  3. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    I am your father.
     
  4. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Semantics will allow you to get pretty much anywhere you want to go.
     
  5. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Anakin Skywalker? Is that you?
     
  6. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Obviously it means your Spiritual Father in heaven not your blood father. Paul bends the rule a little suggesting father means something other than your natural father. Consistent with his teaching that Christians are guided by the spirit rather than a written code, so he bends it a little bit. But institutionalizing someone as a "Holy Father" would be breaking the command so that it could not be any more broken.
     
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  7. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    ...Luke...
     
  8. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Or perhaps Jesus never gave that command in the first place... It totally contradicts other scriptures... Why would God write a book that contradicts itself so much?
     
  9. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Because he is a Shepherd. I think of it like this. Remember David when he was just a lad, tending a flock of sheep with his sling. He sling a rock to the right of the herd and the herd goes left, throws a rock to the left and the herd goes right. So in order to guide his flock Jesus throws a rock to the left, and a rock to the right, then leaves it up to you to decide which way you need to turn. For me when I see someone called the "Holy Father" thats a big rock telling me to turn the other way.
     
  10. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Paul called himself a father and he went so far as to say it is no longer I who live but Christ Living in me, making himself pretty darn equal to Christ... Jesus never specified either. He just said call no man your father. A total contradiction of other scriptures.
     
  11. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    That should be a rock to tell you not to follow Paul
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    if the body is given to you by your physical father and mother, then obviously the reference is to the Father that gave us our mind, or spirit. call no man, no person, good. mother's and father's are capable of doing evil things to their children.

    jesus said; "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

    so the Mind, the Spirit, takes precedence over earthly relationships.

    Jesus didn't say to honor one's physical father and mother alone. we should have respect and honor all people, no matter the title, authority, or lack thereof. they are our neighbors.

    Matthew 10:36
    And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

    Ephesians 6:12
    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
     
    #12 Fool, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  13. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Nobody ever called Paul a father though. But I believe his point was that Paul was an author of scripture, that it was coming from Christ not from himself. And Peter seconded it, saying that what Paul writes is scripture. So in a sense Paul was a father since what he was writing was from Christ, but I would never call Paul father.
     
  14. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    How do you know?
     
  15. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    In the book, there are not examples of anyone calling another man father in the book, other than someone who was a father by blood. Like Peter or anybody never addresses him as father Paul.
     
  16. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Not true

    Elisha cries, "My father, my father!" to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12). Later, Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).
     
  17. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    It's just a guide, if you see someone carried up to heaven in a whirlwind I guess it's ok to call them father. Perhaps there is some sort of metaphorical meaning to it, like Elijah being carried up to heaven was a prophecy of Jesus ascending to heaven, and Elisha calls him father because it would be Christ who ascends to heaven. Generally speaking they don't have a title of Father or are called father.
     
  18. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Jesus never distinguished between having the title father and calling someone father. He simply said call no man your father... Since he didn't mean what he said, how do we ever know he meant what he said?
     
  19. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Without gnosis, the orthodox ideology does become confusing. Even Luke says:

    If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    The sword Christ said he brought, was to divide our thinking of flesh and spirit.

    Luke:
    52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
    53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


    The carnal flesh is the father of another. The spirit is of the true Father, who gave it. Without gnosis, men call even the Priests father.

    The Gospel of Thomas explains it better, IMO:

    (101) <Jesus said,> "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not love his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me.

    (99) The disciples said to him, "Your brothers and your mother are standing outside."
    He said to them, "Those here who do the will of my father are my brothers and my mother. It is they who will enter the kingdom of my father."

    The catholics (RCC) would not include such scriptures that distorted their view of Priests being fathers and flesh Mary being Jesus mother. A spiritual Christian see's who he/she is sired by. And flesh plays no part of spiritual truth. Just a part of dying to the flesh, and being "born again" to the revealed and true parents. The Father, and the Holy Spirit who is mother.

    Just my view.
     
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  20. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    After he says call no man father he elaborates by saying, One is your Father and he is in heaven. So if he's not your parent, guardian or biological father, why call someone father or be called father. Jesus who we generally call by name stressed equality among his people, what better way to show equality than by calling each other by name?
     
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