Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls in women’s sports is ‘unfair’

[blü 2]

Well I think Caitlyn would know if anyone would.

"Caitlyn Jenner, the former Olympic champion and reality TV personality now running for California governor, said she opposes transgender girls competing in girls’ sports at school.

Jenner, a 1976 decathlon Olympic gold medalist who came out as a transgender woman in 2015, told a TMZ reporter on Saturday that it’s “a question of fairness.”

“That’s why I oppose biological boys who are trans competing in girls’ sports in school. It just isn’t fair. And we have to protect girls’ sports in our schools,” Jenner said Saturday during a brief interview in a Malibu parking lot."

Caitlyn Jenner: Transgender girls in women’s sports is ‘unfair’

I have impeccable feminist credentials, but the reason for the division between comps for women and comps for men in just about every sport is because of the physiological differences between men and women ─ as a phenomenon of their sex, not of their gender.

So maybe she has a point.

But equally, maybe people smarter'n me can figure out a satisfactory solution.

 

[We Never Know]

I edited the post. I am unwatching this thread. I just wanted it known I find these posts to be messy. Dont quote me again please.

Its a free forum and while I respect your choices, you chose to post here. No one baited you or made you post here.

When I want to avoid a thread, I dang sure won't post to it. But that's me. To each their own.

 

[darkskies]

Could you imagine putting a 215 pound female or transgender in the ring with Mike Tyson in his prime?

I didn't say JUST body mass. I have no idea of the exact requirements.

 

[We Never Know]

I have impeccable feminist credentials, but the reason the division between comps for women and comps for men in just about every sport is because of the physiological differences between men and women ─ as a phenomenon of their sex, not of their gender.

So maybe she has a point.

But equally, maybe people smarter'n me can figure out a satisfactory solution.

Im not sure of I follow you. Do you mean...
Sex as biological attributes and gender as socially constructed roles?

 

[We Never Know]

I didn't say JUST body mass. I have no idea of the exact requirements.

Its division's and you did mention divisions. Those division's are weight class.

 

[We Never Know]

Well lets just got with science...

There are major differences between female and male skeletal muscles, including differences in energy metabolism, fiber type composition, and contractile speed. Generally, male muscles have a higher capacity for anaerobic metabolism and generate a higher maximum power output than female muscles.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi...nces between,power output than female muscles.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The division should be made by body mass or skill or whatever they require for the sport, not gender.

There ya go. The opposition has never been about gender.

 

[darkskies]

Well lets just got with science...

There are major differences between female and male skeletal muscles, including differences in energy metabolism, fiber type composition, and contractile speed. Generally, male muscles have a higher capacity for anaerobic metabolism and generate a higher maximum power output than female muscles.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.00098.2004#:~:text=there are major differences between,power output than female muscles.

Perhaps a thorough medical exam of every participant's capability should decide which category they belong to instead of "you're a boy, you go there". Trans women have estrogen- many with even more of it than testosterone.

 

[Rival]

Perhaps a thorough medical exam of every participant's capability should decide which category they belong to instead of "you're a boy, you go there". Trans women have estrogen- many with even more of it than testosterone.

The problem is that if they transition post puberty or even during puberty, the bone structure and overall muscle mass in a biological male will never change and will always be a biological advantage over a biological female, no matter how much oestrogen is taken. Already we see transwomen outperforming bio women in female sports and it's not a surprise.

 

[darkskies]

The problem is that if they transition post puberty or even during puberty, the bone structure and overall muscle mass in a biological male will never change and will always be a biological advantage over a biological female, no matter how much oestrogen is taken. Already we see transwomen outperforming bio women in female sports and it's not a surprise.

That's true. There's a lot of things to consider.

 

[blü 2]

Sex as biological attributes and gender as socially constructed roles?

Yes, socially or psychologically.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only common sense is needed to know it's unfair.

Ooh, "common sense". Common sense is almost always used to defend the indefensible. The problem is that this is a complex issue. Most have heard that some transgender people start using hormone blocking drugs before puberty because of the irreversible changes that puberty brings. I have heard, but do not know if I can find articles, that there is little difference in performance if transgirls take hormone blocking medications before puberty. If they do not get the drugs there is a definite advantage to transgirls and that is not fair.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I have impeccable feminist credentials, but the reason for the division between comps for women and comps for men in just about every sport is because of the physiological differences between men and women ─ as a phenomenon of their sex, not of their gender.

So maybe she has a point.

But equally, maybe people smarter'n me can figure out a satisfactory solution.

No Need.
Just accept that a man can never be a woman, and prohibit trans women to compete against true women.
Eazy, settled.

Period, problem solved.
Done, klaar, finito, kaput!

 

[SA Huguenot]

Perhaps a thorough medical exam of every participant's capability should decide which category they belong to instead of "you're a boy, you go there". Trans women have estrogen- many with even more of it than testosterone.

I think you should have said the above with a more realistic wording, not using these semantics to kick dust into everyone's eyes.

The real way to say what you ment is:

Men who attempts to prettend to be woman, who had surgery and gets hormonal addition, such as estrogen, are able to juce themself up to have proportionally more estrogen than the natural testosterone in their bodies.
And: a thorough examine will prove that someone is a boy, and should go to the boys!

It is again so simple to resolve this issue of gender.

We just need to call a spade, a spade!
and stop playing with words.

 

[Heyo]

But equally, maybe people smarter'n me can figure out a satisfactory solution.

They are. The olympic committee has had rules for decades and they are revising them according to new data. At least they try, but it's impossible to keep politics out of it, unfortunately.

 

[darkskies]

And: a thorough examine will prove that someone is a boy, and should go to the boys!

This isn't always the case; the estrogen does affect trans women to a high degree and so a simple gender division won't work. Which is why I said "category".

Sorry for not being clear.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm sure its political. But her speaking out as a male about women sports is correct in my opinion.
If you disagree why don't we see transgender relating to being male's playing in the NFL? Because the male's would crush and destroy them.

Yeah, so you're reading way too much into my post.
My ONLY point was that an assumption built around 'If anyone would know, Caitlyn Jenner would know' seems inherently flawed for the reasons listed.

Do you agree?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The division should be made by body mass or skill or whatever they require for the sport, not gender.

That doesn't work for all sports.
You're also setting up a situation where 'womens sport' is devalued as 'Division 3' or whatever.

 

[darkskies]

That doesn't work for all sports.
You're also setting up a situation where 'womens sport' is devalued as 'Division 3' or whatever.

Hmm...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Hmm...

I'm open to discussion on it. Unlike some, I'd describe my knowledge and thoughts on this area are 'developing'.

I'm fairly passionate about female sports for a variety of reasons (and sports in general).
I'm also pro-transgender rights.

It's just combining those two thoughts on this particular topic I find challenging.