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Featured Caesar's Coin, and Yeshua's lost joke!

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by oldbadger, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Caesar's Coin, and Yeshua's lost joke!

    I'm sorry that this OP is so long.......... it couldn't be avoided.
    I have often thought that @chinu 's avatar is a perfect representation of Jesus. Laughing out loud
    .[​IMG]

    Apart from Pentecostals, most Christians do seem to view Jesus as a very serious, stern, un-relaxed kind of character. Pictures and drawings of him show serious or unhappy countenances. I think that is wrong. He must have had a wonderful sense of humour at times.
    One example is the story of Caesar's coin, as told in Mark and other gospels:-
    Mark: 12.14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master................ Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? {12:15} Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see [it. ]{12:16} And they brought [it.] And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s. {12:17} And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marveled at him.

    Some folks have used this story to argue that Jesus was a traitor, others have waffled on about how clever his answer was, but Jesus was far more clever, and enjoyed the situation much more than reported, I think.

    Although the gospels call the coin a 'penny', that's just error caused by 'translator's drift'. The early writers thought that if they called the coin a 'denarius' then Roman readers would identify with it more easily, because a small silver 3.5 gram coin of that name was used for civil taxation throughout most of the Empire; and in the same way the translators of the King James bible thought that 'penny' would serve English speakers more helpfully........... hence, translators drift.

    Here is a common taxation coin used so regularly in Jerusalem that any man would have known it intimately...........

    [​IMG]

    On the Obverse side you can see the featured head, and on the reverse side you can see an eagle and to the right of it the inscription KP or (sometimes) KAP which is an abbreviation of KAICAP, Greek for 'Caesar'.
    And Jesus asked, 'Whose head, and whose inscription?
    And the priests answered ,'Caesars', the liars! :D
    How Jesus kept a straight face I'll never know, for the head was not Caesars.
    And then Jesus is reported to have answered, 'Give to Caesar things that are Caesar’s, and to God things that are God’s.'
    I don't think he said that. I think he said ....... and to Gods things that are God's....... because although the inscription does read 'Caesar' the head on the obverse is not Caesar's, it depicts a God! A Pagan God!
    Maybe the mob did not know about this sacrilege, but Jesus certainly did, and those priests could not have dared to answer with total honesty. What a turn around!

    The coin shown above was the most common taxation coin known in Jerusalem, the Tyrian half-shekel. This almost pure silvercoin, weighing just overr 7 grams was the Temple head tax for any man to be paid at least once anually and probably on each visit to the Great Temple. Although the mint in Tyre was closed down circa 18BC by either King Herod or the Romans a mint near Jerusalem was used from then on until circa 69AD to continue minting the Tyrian Shekel and half shekel to a lower standard of finish but at the same accuracy for metal purity and weight.

    The fact that the Head showed the pagan Greek God Melgarth-Herakles (the Jewish pagan God Baal?!) and a graven image on the reverse was overlooked by the priesthood in favour of the coin's consistency.

    The 14 gram full shekels were probably the 30 coins paid out to Judas for his bretrayal of Jesus....... the Sanhedrin had access to thousands and thousands of them.

    This is just further evidence of how hellenised the whole priesthood had become, and how far removed from the true ways and laws which Jesus hoped to re-install and uphold?

    And despite his severest anger, I think he must have enjoyed these momnents very much.
     
    #1 oldbadger, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  2. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I agree. I think Jesus had a good sense of humor. Liked the wine too. Pretty laid back dude.
     
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  3. Electus de Lumine

    Electus de Lumine Magician of Light

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    Or the far more simple explanation. The people who wrote down the new testament did not know any better.
     
  4. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    .... if only that were true.
    But I wouldn't lump 'the people who wrote the new testament' all together in the first place.
    Some didn't know better, some certainly did know better!
     
  5. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    Hahaha...
     
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  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    And here's a coin referenced in Wikipedia ...

    [​IMG]
    The related text reads:
    But apparently you disagree. :D

    See above.
     
    #6 Jayhawker Soule, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
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  7. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    That is a 3.755gram (tetradrachma) denarius, and was never used to pay the Temple head tax.
    I mentioned it in my OP.

    If you had tried to pay your Temple Head Tax witrh that you would have got chucked out!

    But..... since hundred of thousands visited the Temple during the three great feasts, the Sanhedrin would be holding several tons of Tyrian half-shekels..... until Rome took its cut.

    :D
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    If you know more than those referenced by and responsible for the Wikipedia article you are certainly far better informed than I am.
     
  9. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Yes!
    I can just imagine Jesus sitting amongst the Capernaum boatmen, publicans and lake officials, eating his meat and taking his drink, sometimes to excess (as reported to John the Baptist) and enjoying himself.

    Why else would he have bothered turning water to wine at the Cana wedding reception? :D
     
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  10. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    You showed the 3.7 gram denarius. It was used to pay civil taxes all over the empire, just as I wrote in the OP.

    But it was NOT used to pay the Temple head tax. Only one coin was acceptable for that, the Tyrian half-shekel, although two men could pay together with the full Tyrian shekel.

    Herod closed down the Tyre mint, but established a mint to continue stamping the coin somewhere near Jerusalem.

    You normally kick hell out of Wiki!! I accessed an Australian Numismatic website to find out more about Jewish Temple coinage. :D
     
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  11. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    You know why Jesus drank a lot right? You know the punchline?
     
  12. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    ...No...

    Go on..... go on....!

    :D
     
  13. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Well God or Jesus preincarnate, knowing what people will do. Told John the Baptists parents that John must never drink any fermented beverage, ever. But Jesus "came eating and drinking". So when the Pharisees refused to believe Jesus, accusing him of being a drunk. Jesus could reply, "John the Baptist has never drank alcohol his entire life and you wouldn't believe him either, hypocrites" Because John the Baptist also testified who Jesus was and never drank.
     
  14. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Oh, Fair enough....
    I thought it was going to be an irreverent joke!

    Seriously, I dismiss Luke's nativity entirely. I love the part where young Mary just ups and goes walkabout, all the way to Jerusalem or near there, to see her cousin.

    But John the Immerser was real, alright. Amazing man....
     
  15. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Well, it's always good to know, that was the only reason John the Baptist couldn't drink.
     
  16. Electus de Lumine

    Electus de Lumine Magician of Light

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    Sounds like an assertion stated as fact.

    Where is the evidence of this?
     
  17. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    You copied my sentence:-
    Some didn't know better, some certainly did know better!

    You need to help me......
    What points do you want evidence for?

    What sources would you give value to?

    Does a Luciferian accept everything written in the bible?

    Give us a list of what sources work for you, and the points you want some evidence for, and we'll take it from there.... ok?
     
  18. Electus de Lumine

    Electus de Lumine Magician of Light

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    Given your statements am I right in assuming that you only think of this because you have faith in the bible?
     
  19. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I'll try again.
    Exactly what parts of my OP do you wish to see evidence?
    Do you accept that the story of the 'coin' in G-Mark, Luke and Matthew really happened?
     
  20. Electus de Lumine

    Electus de Lumine Magician of Light

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    It could have and it could have not.
     
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