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By Faith. Why?

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
That btw is " faith". I don't do faith.


Actually, though, you'd like some facts better than your fantasy. People in Hong Kong have no use for you Americans' "woke" garbage.
I don't. It's frivolous and stupid. No way
your people are going to infect me with it.

Thereso shortage of fringy liberals at Universities I attended, but they had no doubts that I'm to the right of the Great Kahn an tha
I really am a descendant.

Khan apparently had "faith", as he stated he was the judgment of God upon his vanquished. His descendants apparently had a run in with the god of Japan, for the Torah (winds of God), apparently vanquished his whole navy when they tried to conquer Japan. As for any "facts" or methods of thought, you think you obtained in your Progressive colleges, taught by Progressive teachers, don't try to deposit them in the bank. As for Hong Kong, their wealth came from being vassals, under the protection of the British crown. Their shame and downfall, now comes from being the vassals of the communist/socialist CCP. The CCP, like the WEF, want you to "own nothing and be happier for it". The Fascist regimes of the US white house and the CCP aim to suppress freedom of communication, actual facts, which can be seen in the fact that Hong Kong does not have a free press, or leadership supported by the people. Not the case in "deplorable" central USA, whereas government is only tolerated a bit, and in response, they try and take our guns, chickens and bibles. The government does not have a chance and appears to be falling sooner than later. We will see as someone holds Biden up tonight to try and remember what he was told to say.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Khan apparently had "faith", as he stated he was the judgment of God upon his vanquished. His descendants apparently had a run in with the god of Japan, for the Torah (winds of God), apparently vanquished his whole navy when they tried to conquer Japan. As for any "facts" or methods of thought, you think you obtained in your Progressive colleges, taught by Progressive teachers, don't try to deposit them in the bank. As for Hong Kong, their wealth came from being vassals, under the protection of the British crown. Their shame and downfall, now comes from being the vassals of the communist/socialist CCP. The CCP, like the WEF, want you to "own nothing and be happier for it". The Fascist regimes of the US white house and the CCP aim to suppress freedom of communication, actual facts, which can be seen in the fact that Hong Kong does not have a free press, or leadership supported by the people. Not the case in "deplorable" central USA, whereas government is only tolerated a bit, and in response, they try and take our guns, chickens and bibles. The government does not have a chance and appears to be falling sooner than later. We will see as someone holds Biden up tonight to try and remember what he was told to say.
Never mind. You pay no attention to
what I say, and just spin words out
of your fantasy
0
Where I'm progressive, my family
wealth is from being vassals, and
your silly ark really did sail the seas.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Never mind. You pay no attention to
what I say, and just spin words out
of your fantasy
0
Where I'm progressive, my family
wealth is from being vassals, and
your silly ark really did sail the seas.

As soon as the British crown removed their protection from Hong Kong, well, let us say, there is no way but up from where Hong Kong is now. If your "family" had any resources, they have probably tried to get everything out of China. Once Hong Kong was the route for the CCP to launder money, and for the Chinese to get their money out of China. That route has now been severely restricted. One means of removing assets was by way of jewelry, so I would assume that anyone in the jewelry business in Hong Kong may have some money somewhere. Until the Malaysians restricted Chinese flow of money into their country, that was one place to invest. Apparently, the Malaysians ran into problems, and are now again letting the Chinese invest in their country at this time. British Singapore, British Australia, and British Canada, seem to be a good place for the Chinese to protect their money, especially now that the CCP cracked down on Hong Kong. California was once a site to stash Chinese cash, but it is even too far left and volatile for even the Chinese elites. I had a Chinese friend who came back from China with the job of investing 1 billion of Chinese money into U.S. assets with a return of 6%. As for having an "ark", well, China is hemmed in by the outer islands, and with the Indians' owning the Malacca straights, your "family" might need an "ark" to get your pets out of the country if things deteriorate worse than Xi thinks. If Xi tries to draft you into his navy, don't go, remember what happened to your relatives during the last time they tried to transit the water between China and the outer islands. The same weather conditions exist now as it did then. Not that the Chinese military does not already know this, but the people they send in their little "arks", are probably in the dark, and will likely find a resting place with your relatives if they try and save the true Chinese patriots on Taiwan.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
As soon as the British crown removed their protection from Hong Kong, well, let us say, there is no way but up from where Hong Kong is now. If your "family" had any resources, they have probably tried to get everything out of China. Once Hong Kong was the route for the CCP to launder money, and for the Chinese to get their money out of China. That route has now been severely restricted. One means of removing assets was by way of jewelry, so I would assume that anyone in the jewelry business in Hong Kong may have some money somewhere. Until the Malaysians restricted Chinese flow of money into their country, that was one place to invest. Apparently, the Malaysians ran into problems, and are now again letting the Chinese invest in their country at this time. British Singapore, British Australia, and British Canada, seem to be a good place for the Chinese to protect their money, especially now that the CCP cracked down on Hong Kong. California was once a site to stash Chinese cash, but it is even too far left and volatile for even the Chinese elites. I had a Chinese friend who came back from China with the job of investing 1 billion of Chinese money into U.S. assets with a return of 6%. As for having an "ark", well, China is hemmed in by the outer islands, and with the Indians' owning the Malacca straights, your "family" might need an "ark" to get your pets out of the country if things deteriorate worse than Xi thinks. If Xi tries to draft you into his navy, don't go, remember what happened to your relatives during the last time they tried to transit the water between China and the outer islands. The same weather conditions exist now as it did then. Not that the Chinese military does not already know this, but the people they send in their little "arks", are probably in the dark, and will likely find a resting place with your relatives if they try and save the true Chinese patriots on Taiwan.

It's not my "family ". Being people,
we have reall families.

I don't need an ark, I bought a flat
in Singapore, documents are in
order, I can come and go as it suits
me.

We definitely don't need financial advice.

The ark reference was to your
belief that there really- really was a
Flood, which is so ignorant and
insensible that your opinion on
anything is Doubtful. Your history
lessons are very ignorant, analysis
is ludicrous.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
It's not my "family ". Being people,
we have reall families.

I don't need an ark, I bought a flat
in Singapore, documents are in
order, I can come and go as it suits
me.

We definitely don't need financial advice.

The ark reference was to your
belief that there really- really was a
Flood, which is so ignorant and
insensible that your opinion on
anything is Doubtful. Your history
lessons are very ignorant, analysis
is ludicrous.

The "flood" story is prevalent throughout the world, even with respect to the American Indians, and geological and archeological evidence exist with respect to floods such as with respect to the Black Sea breaking out into the Mediterranean Sea, and a huge glacier lake breaking through a northern glacier dam and washing parts of the northwest clean of everything. One of the oldest existing stone structures is found near the site of where your "ark" supposedly landed. The early Sumerian empire left writings describing the flood. As for you now living in Singapore, a onetime British possession, molded into a capitalist stronghold, it seems you fled the turmoil of China, to be in a safe haven from the leftist Communist China, to try and hold on to any gains you might have accumulated while living under British control in Hong Kong. Singapore still exists under the protection of the British and U.S. navy, as well as the navies of the British Australia and former British India. China wants the oil and fishing resources of that area, and the only thing standing between China and Singapore are former British colonies. I would suggest that you not return to Hong Kong, as it now is under control of the CCP, and they might decide they want you to be part of their marine contingent being planned to be sent to Taiwan. It is the former British colony of India who controls the Malacca Straits, and any conflict between India and China will wind up at the doorstep of Singapore. Your "flat", nor your family wealth, might be as safe as you presume. Maybe it would be worthwhile to find Khan's grave and acquire some more of your family's former wealth. I don't think the 70 million victims of the Khan would sue for their families' former wealth, as he generally left no families alive. You might want to hurry, because the grave is probably located within the political realm of Mao's CCP, and the families of approximately 70 million people he destroyed might want part of that loot as well. Weath is fleeting, and in your case, not as secure as you might presume. The CCP has police offices in many of the U.S. Universities, no doubt they have offices in Singapore as well. The CCP now frowns on any money taken out of China, and Xi has been recently seen wearing a Mao suit, a sign of things to come.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
The "flood" story is prevalent throughout the world, even with respect to the American Indians, and geological and archeological evidence exist with respect to floods such as with respect to the Black Sea breaking out into the Mediterranean Sea, and a huge glacier lake breaking through a northern glacier dam and washing parts of the northwest clean of everything. One of the oldest existing stone structures is found near the site of where your "ark" supposedly landed. The early Sumerian empire left writings describing the flood. As for you now living in Singapore, a onetime British possession, molded into a capitalist stronghold, it seems you fled the turmoil of China, to be in a safe haven from the leftist Communist China, to try and hold on to any gains you might have accumulated while living under British control in Hong Kong. Singapore still exists under the protection of the British and U.S. navy, as well as the navies of the British Australia and former British India. China wants the oil and fishing resources of that area, and the only thing standing between China and Singapore are former British colonies. I would suggest that you not return to Hong Kong, as it now is under control of the CCP, and they might decide they want you to be part of their marine contingent being planned to be sent to Taiwan. It is the former British colony of India who controls the Malacca Straits, and any conflict between India and China will wind up at the doorstep of Singapore. Your "flat", nor your family wealth, might be as safe as you presume. Maybe it would be worthwhile to find Khan's grave and acquire some more of your family's former wealth. I don't think the 70 million victims of the Khan would sue for their families' former wealth, as he generally left no families alive. You might want to hurry, because the grave is probably located within the political realm of Mao's CCP, and the families of approximately 70 million people he destroyed might want part of that loot as well. Weath is fleeting, and in your case, not as secure as you might presume. The CCP has police offices in many of the U.S. Universities, no doubt they have offices in Singapore as well. The CCP now frowns on any money taken out of China, and Xi has been recently seen wearing a Mao suit, a sign of things to come.

Whatever mismatched myths
you may mention, you are only
describing how well you match
my earlier description.

There was no world wide flood despite
what Genesis says. Simple.

I don't live in Singapore. I own property
and have that option. How you got the
idea I live there is just another example
of you know what.

You may as well skip the history lessons
and analysis. Your view is grossly distorted,
and, seriously? I live here.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
The feast of Weeks comes after 50 days, starting after the Sabbath, following the waving of the sheaths (Passover)(14th of Nissan), and the sacrificing of the "lamb without defect". (Leviticus 23:12). Your Gentile Pentecost comes 50 days after Easter, the feast of Astarte, the pagan queen of heaven, as set at the Council of Nicaea, convened by the "beast with two horns like a lamb", the Roman emperor Constantine. Yeshua was baptized in the Spirit following being immersed in the water, not on Pentecost. (Matthew 3:16). According to Yeshua, per John 8:17, it takes more than your one source from the unknown author of Acts to establish any matter.

Leviticus 23:5
5‘In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD’S Passover. 6‘Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7‘On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. 8‘But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the LORD. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.’”
9Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 10“Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest. 11‘He shall wave the sheaf before the LORD for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12‘Now on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb one year old without defect for a burnt offering to the LORD
I'm fully aware of the origins of Pentecost, and it was, of course, this festival (Shavuot) that was being celebrated in Acts 2.

What you appear to be missing is the fulfilment of the law. In Christ, each festival is overlaid with its eternal meaning. No longer is Pentecost to be seen only as the festival of the giving of the law, but it is also to be remembered as the giving of the Holy Spirit, in which the law is written on the heart.

This is also true of Pesach, Passover, which was firstly seen as a festival of freedom from slavery, but, in Christ, becomes the festival of freedom from 'inner' slavery, or sin.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I'm fully aware of the origins of Pentecost, and it was, of course, this festival (Shavuot) that was being celebrated in Acts 2.

What you appear to be missing is the fulfilment of the law. In Christ, each festival is overlaid with its eternal meaning. No longer is Pentecost to be seen as the festival of the giving of the law, instead, it is to be remembered as the giving of the Holy Spirit, in which the law is written on the heart.

This is also true of Pesach, Passover, which was firstly seen as a festival of freedom from slavery, but, in Christ, becomes the festival of freedom from 'inner' slavery, or sin.

I hate to be the bearing of bad news, but you are still a slave to sin, as in one who "practices sin" (1 John 3:8), a follower of the false gospel of grace, and therefore "of the devil" and will die in due course, As per Yeshua, according to Matthew 5:17, he was to fulfill both the "Law and the prophets", which neither has been fulfilled. Case in point being the "day of the LORD" the beginning of the 7th millennium, which represents the beginning of the "kingdom of God" on earth, when all the "kingdoms" have been "crushed" "all at the same time" (Daniel 2), has not happened, nor have you escaped your own upcoming death. Passover was simply the day of Preparation for the "feast of Unleavened Bread", whereas Israel was supposed to eat the bread of life without the leaven of the Pharisees. The lamb and its blood were eaten and used during the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which was a high Sabbath day. Unfortunately for the Gentiles, 60% of their consumption is based on the consumption of the leaven/hypocrisy of the Pharisee, with the good seed being nailed to a cross. And apparently nothing has been written on the hearts of the house of Judah and Israel, as you are apparently trying to teach every one of the LORD, which is not in line with Jeremiah 31:34. The "blood" over the lintel was a sign for the angel of death to pass over this house, and the sons of Isreal were commanded to hang the Law (10 commandments) on their door frames every year. The "angels" are still coming to "gather" out the "tares" and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30 & 39-42). I think they will not find the 10 commandments nailed to their door frames and simply come in and gather them up to throw them into the fire.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I hate to be the bearing of bad news, but you are still a slave to sin, as in one who "practices sin" (1 John 3:8), a follower of the false gospel of grace, and therefore "of the devil" and will die in due course, As per Yeshua, according to Matthew 5:17, he was to fulfill both the "Law and the prophets", which neither has been fulfilled. Case in point being the "day of the LORD" the beginning of the 7th millennium, which represents the beginning of the "kingdom of God" on earth, when all the "kingdoms" have been "crushed" "all at the same time" (Daniel 2), has not happened, nor have you escaped your own upcoming death. Passover was simply the day of Preparation for the "feast of Unleavened Bread", whereas Israel was supposed to eat the bread of life without the leaven of the Pharisees. The lamb and its blood were eaten and used during the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which was a high Sabbath day. Unfortunately for the Gentiles, 60% of their consumption is based on the consumption of the leaven/hypocrisy of the Pharisee, with the good seed being nailed to a cross. And apparently nothing has been written on the hearts of the house of Judah and Israel, as you are apparently trying to teach every one of the LORD, which is not in line with Jeremiah 31:34. The "blood" over the lintel was a sign for the angel of death to pass over this house, and the sons of Isreal were commanded to hang the Law (10 commandments) on their door frames every year. The "angels" are still coming to "gather" out the "tares" and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30 & 39-42). I think they will not find the 10 commandments nailed to their door frames and simply come in and gather them up to throw them into the fire.

The millennial Sabbath, or seventh day of God's week, is not the Sabbath of man's week. Fulfilment of the millennial Sabbath is not a requirement under the law.

So, when Jesus said, lt is finished, he meant that he had completed the work that he, as the Suffering Servant, had be called on to perform. This was to fulfil the law of Moses in righteousness, as all Jews were required to do (but failed).

It is not the 10 Commandments that the Angel of Death found on the doorpost and lintel of the lsraelite homes, but the blood of an unblemished lamb. The Lamb of God, foreshadowed in these events, is the one who sheds his life-saving blood. And it is only through Him, the doorway to life, that a man can find salvation.

The Gospel of grace is a gospel of mercy for the very reason that men are all sinners. Faith in the righteous One allows for error, and forgiveness, which is not a path to salvation under the law.

Jesus did not appear on earth in order to repeat the words of the first covenant, but to fulfil the law and offer himself as the new covenant. As mediator between the two covenants, Jesus Christ has to fulfil the first in order to make the second covenant possible.

[IMO]
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The millennial Sabbath, or seventh day of God's week, is not the Sabbath of man's week. Fulfilment of the millennial Sabbath is not a requirement under the law.

So, when Jesus said, lt is finished, he meant that he had completed the work that he, as the Suffering Servant, had be called on to perform. This was to fulfil the law of Moses in righteousness, as all Jews were required to do (but failed).

It is not the 10 Commandments that the Angel of Death found on the doorpost and lintel of the lsraelite homes, but the blood of an unblemished lamb. The Lamb of God, foreshadowed in these events, is the one who sheds his life-saving blood. And it is only through Him, the doorway to life, that a man can find salvation.

The Gospel of grace is a gospel of mercy for the very reason that men are all sinners. Faith in the righteous One allows for error, and forgiveness, which is not a path to salvation under the law.

Jesus did not appear on earth in order to repeat the words of the first covenant, but to fulfil the law and offer himself as the new covenant. As mediator between the two covenants, Jesus Christ has to fulfil the first in order to make the second covenant possible.

[IMO]

The "millennial Sabbath", as is water baptism, and circumcision, is a representation of the underlying coming event. According to Matthew 5:17, it is the "Law and the prophets" which Yeshua came to fulfill, and they haven't been "fufilled". And the Law is to be written on the hearts of the children of Israel (Jeremiah 31:33) as well as on their door posts (Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV), The blood, in which the "Spirit of Revelation" (the Word) resides, is the basis for the Law and the Prophets. (Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV) The "angel of death" is coming back for the "tares", "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:39-42). Per 1 John 3:8, "all" are not sinners, only those born of the devil, for those "born of God" do not sin. Your "gospel of grace" the false gospel taught by the false prophet Paul, is the "covenant with death" based on "lies" & "deception" (Isaiah 28:15-18).

Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV
Hear, O Israel: YHVH our Elohim is one LORD:
And thou shalt love YHVH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
The "millennial Sabbath", as is water baptism, and circumcision, is a representation of the underlying coming event. According to Matthew 5:17, it is the "Law and the prophets" which Yeshua came to fulfill, and they haven't been "fufilled". And the Law is to be written on the hearts of the children of Israel (Jeremiah 31:33) as well as on their door posts (Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV), The blood, in which the "Spirit of Revelation" (the Word) resides, is the basis for the Law and the Prophets. (Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV) The "angel of death" is coming back for the "tares", "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:39-42). Per 1 John 3:8, "all" are not sinners, only those born of the devil, for those "born of God" do not sin. Your "gospel of grace" the false gospel taught by the false prophet Paul, is the "covenant with death" based on "lies" & "deception" (Isaiah 28:15-18).

Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV
Hear, O Israel: YHVH our Elohim is one LORD:
And thou shalt love YHVH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
The mezuzah would not have been in use in Egypt, because the the words of Deuteronomy had not been revealed to Moses!!

The blood of the lamb was used to ward off the angel of death, not the words of the law, which at the time had not been revealed to Moses.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The mezuzah would not have been in use in Egypt, because the the words of Deuteronomy had not been revealed to Moses!!

The blood of the lamb was used to ward off the angel of death, not the words of the law, which at the time had not been revealed to Moses.

The "mezusah" refers today as the 10 commandments attached to the door post, and also at the time of Yeshua, and the "angels" are still coming for "those who commit lawlessness" according to Yeshua in Matthew 13:39-42. The "mezusah" is the 10 commandments attached to the door frame, which is to keep the "angels" at bey, at least metaphorically. The actual affects will be metered out as with the 7 trumpets, as shown in Revelation 8: 6-7. The "mezusah" was just supposed to act as a reminder at what is important and what is deadly.
 
Justification by faith was prophesied by Habakkuk when he said, 'but the just shall live by his faith' [Habakkuk 2:4]. Of course, it's not that people hadn't lived by faith before the coming of Jesus Christ, because we're told in Hebrews 11 that Abel 'offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain', and he did so 'by faith'. Thereafter, a long list of Old Testament figures lived by faith.

Is there a difference between the faith shown by the OT figures, and faith shown by 'born again' believers in the NT? Can we say that the object of faith is the same?

To my understanding, Paul is correct when he says, 'Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law' [Romans 3:28]. This does not mean that works are not important, only that works must follow faith.

I have taken to wondering why it is that Hebrews 11:6 says, 'without faith it is impossible to please him [God]'.

It seems to me that God initiates our trust. God is love, 'a God of truth and without iniquity' [Deuteronomy 32:4]. He raises his own as an only son, admonishing and correcting but always in the spirit of love. The upbringing provided by God allows the son to become a loving example of the Father's Spirit. The love takes root in the son, and the son's trust is rewarded. Is this the reason that trust, or faith, is so important?

Sometimes a delinquent son seeks to fulfil vain ambitions, and does not heed the loving advice of the Father. Yet the Father, ever faithful to his son, continues to offer him love, knowing that even delinquent sons can repent and return. Earthly existence is short, scripture warns us, and the great reward of faith is eternal life with the Father.

So, what is an atheist doing when he declares that faith in God is without evidence? Is love not the evidence that the Son bears the Father's Spirit?
How does one become “born again”?
Thanks
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
In the Bible, God is defined as 'love' [1 John 8:16].

IMO, faith is a response to love, and is, on that account, wholly connected to love.

I'm now interested to understand whether atheists define love as a power that engenders trust.
I believe I did not hae faith in God's love until I realized that Jesus was God in the flesh. I knew Jesus loved me because He died for me on a cross.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
ALL believers in Christianity have their belief based on 'faith' not evidence regardless of their claims of certainty of faith. By far most inherited the their belief from their culture and sense of community and belonging. Some find it as what they are looking for to satisfy their desire for a sense of community and belonging in terms of 'faith' regardless. Even those that claim to 'find' their faith without being raised in the 'faith' grew up in the broader community and culture of the belief.
I did not come by faith from the community nor by teaching but by the Word of God. Perhaps faith in the Word came by teaching.
Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I did not come by faith from the community nor by teaching but by the Word of God. Perhaps faith in the Word came by teaching.
Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
The above confirms the following:

ALL believers in Christianity have their belief based on 'faith' not evidence regardless of their claims of certainty of faith. By far most inherited the their belief from their culture and sense of community and belonging. Some find it as what they are looking for to satisfy their desire for a sense of community and belonging in terms of 'faith' regardless. Even those that claim to 'find' their faith without being raised in the 'faith' grew up in the broader community and culture of the belief.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The above confirms the following:

ALL believers in Christianity have their belief based on 'faith' not evidence regardless of their claims of certainty of faith. By far most inherited the their belief from their culture and sense of community and belonging. Some find it as what they are looking for to satisfy their desire for a sense of community and belonging in terms of 'faith' regardless. Even those that claim to 'find' their faith without being raised in the 'faith' grew up in the broader community and culture of the belief.
I believe like others of faith my faith has been realized.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I believe like others of faith my faith has been realized.
Too many unknowns and contradictions in terms of subjective beliefs particularly ancient tribal worldviews to stick your head in the sand.

ALL believers in Christianity have their belief based on 'faith' not evidence regardless of their claims of certainty of faith. By far most inherited the their belief from their culture and sense of community and belonging. Some find it as what they are looking for to satisfy their desire for a sense of community and belonging in terms of 'faith' regardless. Even those that claim to 'find' their faith without being raised in the 'faith' grew up in the broader community and culture of the belief.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Justification by faith was prophesied by Habakkuk when he said, 'but the just shall live by his faith' [Habakkuk 2:4]. Of course, it's not that people hadn't lived by faith before the coming of Jesus Christ, because we're told in Hebrews 11 that Abel 'offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain', and he did so 'by faith'. Thereafter, a long list of Old Testament figures lived by faith.

Is there a difference between the faith shown by the OT figures, and faith shown by 'born again' believers in the NT? Can we say that the object of faith is the same?

To my understanding, Paul is correct when he says, 'Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law' [Romans 3:28]. This does not mean that works are not important, only that works must follow faith.

I have taken to wondering why it is that Hebrews 11:6 says, 'without faith it is impossible to please him [God]'.

It seems to me that God initiates our trust. God is love, 'a God of truth and without iniquity' [Deuteronomy 32:4]. He raises his own as an only son, admonishing and correcting but always in the spirit of love. The upbringing provided by God allows the son to become a loving example of the Father's Spirit. The love takes root in the son, and the son's trust is rewarded. Is this the reason that trust, or faith, is so important?

Sometimes a delinquent son seeks to fulfil vain ambitions, and does not heed the loving advice of the Father. Yet the Father, ever faithful to his son, continues to offer him love, knowing that even delinquent sons can repent and return. Earthly existence is short, scripture warns us, and the great reward of faith is eternal life with the Father.

So, what is an atheist doing when he declares that faith in God is without evidence? Is love not the evidence that the Son bears the Father's Spirit?
Genesis 4:1-2

4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.



Faith Starts With Cain. Faith is Established by Works Under the Law.
 
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