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Featured By Faith. Why?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Redemptionsong, Jan 17, 2023.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    They have a point if you continue to use terms such as Marxist, Leninist, Maoist, and Stalinist inappropriately.
     
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I don't know
    Do you even know what a bigot is. Bigot: "a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group:" An example of a bigot would be an atheist who is "unreasonably" attached to a belief or opinion that there is no creator. As I have many Chinese friends, I wouldn't consider myself prejudiced against the Chinese, but would consider myself informed about their economic, political, social, and military situation, and am not constrained by their police state in stating what is evident except to the ill-informed by reason of a police state, or of being a bigot towards the Chinese and their plight. As for Putin, he is riding in on the tail of the Czar, who by way of Lenin, and Marx, transitioned into a Stalinist regime, during which the Soviet Union was born, which Putin is trying to stitch together. I am not sure why you are trying to stand up for Putin, except he follows the godless communist pattern as a dictator yet props himself up on the shoulder of the Eastern Church. Like with Biden, his church is for show and to get votes from certain groups. None of the cases I presented were "unreasonable", accept to the uniformed. I gave sources which the young lady apparently didn't care to check. Apparently, she says she has lived in China for 20 years, yet she is around 34 years of age. Where has she picked up her Antifa/BLM type of attitude of dropping denigrating terms on others? Did she go to school in California, or what? She seems more of a California Progressive than someone born in China. You go to a forum to exchange ideas, not to burn books, and close down free speech, as was done by Stalin's friend, the fascist, Mussolini. As we are on a religious forum, I have to guess you deem your atheism as a religion in contrast to others who believe, such as have different faiths, than yours.
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There you go, making assumptions, which are not true, which are done to denigrate the other person. If you can't win your argument, simply throw stones. You have apparently kneeled to the science of the day, which in another hour will be obsolete. Your god has no unflinching foundation. Even Newton's F=ma is not true at high speed. All you are doing is grabbing at straws. But to each his own. I will present my case, and you can step in any piles which you overlook.
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The inevitable claim of a bigot is often that "I have have ----- friends". Your posts are what indicate your bigotry against others. Do you seriously even know what a "Maoist" is? I doubt if hardly any of the people that you called that would fit the description. The Democratic party is clearly not Marxist. By using such terms for those that you disagree with you display bigotry. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with others, but please please please, try to post a rational argument.
     
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  5. rational experiences

    rational experiences Veteran Member

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    Father spiritually said no man is God.

    As we weren't created in spaces pressures cold emptiness burning consuming. As was any energy type.

    As cold as a burn is burn as much as heat does.

    He said the latest attempts in heavens to find God as a source in space backdrop theoried is when no heavens even existed. Made the attack on our life personal.

    As invention states a future reaction man only causes. Not now present by machine position.

    He's already said his sun machine has transported across space and time...outside heavens and not inside heavens.. then it crosses into burning.

    However science transmitter control remains outside as a satellite. So he's lying. Always had lied says records.

    Men theoried bio life for a machine channel from space electricity knowing it's machine life source was within machines mass as a theory not manifest machine first. So he channels what he took out of mass back into the machine himself. All controlled.

    Two times.

    Coal burnt substance entity as a dimension of Sion is coals mass. Nuclear dusts dimension is nuclear dust.

    Third time man first theories an Ai theme about humans. As life themes why we live. You have electricity inside your bio dimension he said lying.

    He uses carbon end of all life origins to compare living biology to. Carbon status as carbon in law carbon.

    Twice the modern man after ice age saviour a man scientist theist by his choice was human DNA removed as was his consciousness. Man's god within DNA gone.

    So his mind now agrees to origin bio destruction carbon third position greater attack as first man's science right back in time. As the men of science theisms who did it.

    As science of man is science of man only in his presence. Said legal after father reminded life.

    Says father.

    I believe father as he loves me. Proven by the interaction. Not the word reaction as man re an act. I don't believe the lying greedy science community brothers they hate and theory against life.

    Behaviours say so. Words may imply but are not lived and acted upon as behaviour by intent.

    Reasons.
     
  6. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    No attempt to win a senseless meaningless argument. No need to make assumptions. Your view is very clearly an extreme paranoid conspiracy riddled with ignorance and a rejection of the basics if science.
     
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  7. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    And this is the crux of the matter because the Bible is not full of inconsistencies and contradictions. It proves to be a coherent and incomparable revelation of the will of God, and such an extensive and coherent revelation is not found in any other holy book.

    Such is the majesty of the Bible, that the history becomes linked to one nation, lsrael, from it's very inception. It follows the four thousand year fortunes of this one nation, lsrael, through highs and lows, with the promise of a land and a future Messiah who will bring peace and justice to the earth. And following this, a new heaven and earth to replace the old.

    To argue that this is a 'subjective' interpretation is complete nonsense. Jews and Christians agree that lsrael and Judah are at centre stage, and that out of the tribe of Judah will come the promised Messiah, 'My servant David'.

    Your failure to acknowledge the history of lsrael as under God's will and direction shows your argument about 'anecdotalism' to be without substance. It comes as no surprise that neither you nor Subduction Zone have answered my question about reliable history. This is because all reliable histories can be traced back to reliable eyewitnesses. And, to determine whether a witness is reliable or not has a lot to do with honesty and motives. In the first disciples of Jesus, we have poor Jewish men and women whose motivation to follow a 'rabbi', even unto death, proved their zeal for this Messianic figure.

    So, why do you think these early disciples believed in Jesus so sincerely that they were prepared to die following him?
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You failed to note what sect of science you belong too. Are you ashamed of your particular sect? The science of today is under the direction and support of the politicians and is not the same science as that of Isaac Newton, the father of science, who studied the Scriptures and wrote more on the bible than he did on science. The selling of snake oil, the business of the father of J D Rockafellow, was adopted by his son, who was made rich through Standard Oil, and who established the AMA, and its science of health maintenance through pharmaceuticals, which is killing most of Americans, slowly but surely, through the proscription of such drugs as statins, which are more harmful than helpful. Much like politicians supporting the pharmaceuticals through the improper use of unapproved vaccines, used under a medical emergency decree. Science of today is paid for by the Congressional influencers in Washington D.C. and is no more than the science of death and disease. The science of "green energy" is a joke. The California governor restricted use of electricity for EVs when the wind stopped blowing, and the weather turned hot. The minerals required for production of wind and solar are two few to provide any large increase in production, and the production, using rare earth metals, is focused in China, being produced by slaves comprised of ethnic minorities. No, your science is going to die due to reality over woke politics. Bow to it at your leisure, but not everyone is going to follow you down your path.
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    A Maoist is one who follows the communist dictates of Mao. The Progressive party of the current administration follows the dictatorial practices of Mao, through their use of executive orders, and the taking away of individual rights by over regulation and providing a "steel pot" for its supporters. That is like selling snake oil to students to promise unconstitutional waving of debt, and financing abortions at will, in exchange for votes. Probably high on your list of priorities. Truth may be considered "bigotry" to the "woke", but the day of the "woke" is approaching night. Demography as well as communism (developed socialism) is killing the Chinese people, as well as the US, if the younger generation doesn't get out of the basement and develop as productive members of society. Not to say the older generation has done a good job of preserving rights and hard fought for gains. Marxism is the idea of socialism developing into communism. The leaders of the military arm of the Democratic party, in the past being the KKK, is now the BLM, whose primary leadership are trained Marxist. It was the Nazi's, National Socialist German Workers' Party, who were taught by the staff of Roosevelt in the art of the Democratic partie's Jim Crow practice to Hitler, with regard to handling the Jews. It is the communist (Marxist) based Soviet Union, which was based on Marxism, which the present leader dictatorial Putin, is trying to revive, who calls Ukraine Marxist. Democratic Japan has worse demographics than China, yet they saw the writing on the wall, and shipped their manufacturing around the world, and most Japanize cars sold in the US are assembled in the US, and they are replacing their aging workers with robots. The Chinese had a one child policy which killed their demographics, whereas Japan pays women to have children, although they refuse to do so, and now pays a family of two, up to $50,000 to move out of Tokyo. China and Russia are dictatorial states, whose aim is to remain in power, by the means of suppressed speech, and false shaming, much in line with the current US administration and their minions. The US was founded on "in God we trust". China and Russia were based on the Marxist theory that there is no God, and Lenin (socialist theory) is their god. The policy of the Progressives is that they are their own god, and the end justifies the means. Their "faith" is in the policies of Lenin, and as with all communist (based on socialism) regimes, they end in "destruction", much like the religions based on the false prophet Paul (Matthew 7:13-15), will soon "fall" (Matthew 7:24-27), whose initial god was Peter, but now by way of the pope and Paul's appointed preachers.
     
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    First, what do you mean by sect of science? There are no sects in science. There are not different kinds of science. There are different disciplines and specialties in science like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, Astronomy and Cosmology. The sciences of the world are the basic sciences that use Methodological Naturalism to develop the knowledge of our physical existence

    I am a geologist with over fifty years of experience. My education and work as a geologist involves many branches of science,
     
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  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Not even close. You need to look at what the Maoist government actually did and what ours does It is too bad that you tipped your bad morals so easy by opposing abortion. It is a personal choice for the Democrats. With Maoists it was forced. That is actually closer to the Republican opinion since they want to force women to remain pregnant. So not be Maoist by the Republicans that is fascist. Meanwhile you lose because it is the women that have the right to choose when it comes to abortion. Remember, blastospheres, embryos, and fetuses are not people. They do not have more rights than people.

    That was a very hard fail on your part.
     
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  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The Progressives have supported late term abortions as well as post birth abortive non care. The current Maoist, in the form of Xi, who recently appeared in Maoist garb, are allowing and encouraging multiple children, even the Chinese people are not biting on that because of economic conditions. It is also a personal choice for liberal white Democrat young people to join Antifa (a 1984 version of fascist versus the BLM Marxist) (another military arm of the Democrat party) and participate in domestic terrorism and get caught in Atlanta, as well as supporting abortion for viable "fetuses". Well, you best hope there is no God, for murder is condemned per the 6th Commandment. But unfortunate for killers of children, and actual terrorist, they probably won't have to die to suffer the consequences, as with respect to the "woke" non-binary child of a Democratic Congresswomen found out in Atlanta when they were arrested on domestic terrorism charges. While the "fascist" "right wing" Mussolini worked with the "left wing" National Socialist Hitler, right wing "fascism" isn't really linked that close with left wing Marxist socialism, for which the fascist is simply an authoritarian/intolerant/oppressive type of government such as in the WH at this point in time, which historically the fascist burn books, such as suppress opinion, and repress dissent by coercion and in this case having leftist Democratic elites own the media and coordinating with the WH to push their left wing socialist Marxist agendas, that being a mix of Marxism and fascism. But go ahead and have faith, and pray that there is no God, so you can act with impunity. The problem comes down to who are you praying too to save you from a judgment, which comes to "everyone" (Jeremiah 31:30).
     
    #232 2ndpillar, Jan 26, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Late term abortions are supported because they are needed. You are preaching falsehoods if you leave it as simple as you have in your post. The number of pregnancies that are ended after viability is well below 1%. The women that do so almost always do that due to medical necessity. there are almost no elective late term abortions. First off the number of doctors that do abortions that late is rather small. Most of them will not do an elective abortion that late. Second they are very expensive and insurance companies do not tend to cover late term elective abortions.

    You need to stop listening to the lying propaganda of the antiabortion nuts.

    And you lose the argument when you call them "killers of children". You only show that your reasoning is suspect when you do so.

    Do you think that you can come up with a valid argument against abortion? You will probably lose.
     
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  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The elephant in the room of inconsistency and contradiction is the belief by the authors of the Gospels, books, and letters of the NT that Genesis and Exodus are literal history. This belief in the literal Genesis and Exodus in one way or another is a belief by 40 to 50% or more of Christians today simply based on the text as written. A literal interpretation is also the basis for the fundamental belief in the Original Sin and Fall of Adam and Eve.

    I clearly acknowledge the history of Israel based on the objective verifiable evidence of archaeology and the part of that history in the Bible that may be confirmed by objective evidence. The fact of your belief by faith in the Christian God of the Bible and the nature of Revelation and interpretation of prophesy is subjective and anecdotal by definition, and NOT agreed by the Jews and many others. Actually all the varied and different interpretations including Jews, Muslims and Baha'is is subjective and anecdotal. That is the nature of Religious beliefs they lack objective verifiable evidence that could refute alternative interpretations.

    Remember the objectivity of the evidence for anything is the basis for a sound argument to achieve consensus and agreement which is lacking between the diverse and conflicting religious beliefs concerning the Bible. Science and academic history has the consensus of agreement not religions.

    It is objectively not difficult to consider the Bible and ALL the scriptures of the world religions from the perspective they are created by humans without God's involvement. I do not believe this, but it is possible.

    Remember the belief in God is a subjective anecdotal belief and NOT supported by objective evidence.

    It is common for the believers of many different conflicting religious beliefs to die for their beliefs. Which religious belief would be true based on their willingness to die for their cause?

    The reality is people are willing to give up their life and sacrifice themselves for there sense of community and identity for their tribe whether religious, cultural, ethnicity or racial. It is the nature of being human.
     
    #234 shunyadragon, Jan 26, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  15. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    The only truly objective perspective comes from God, as we've already established. If man's observations had been truly objective then his conclusions would have been correct from the start, but as we know 'science' has been in a state of transition and adjustment from the beginning. All we can say about the progress of man in understanding God's creation is that it is gradual and far from complete.

    If the Bible is not the objective revelation of Almighty God, then it must, like science, be subject to error and inconsistency. This l do not see.

    Let's take, as an example, the genealogies of the Bible. These are often overlooked, but they provide an interesting insight into the mind of God (lMO). You must believe these genealogies to be erroneous, because, according to your understanding, ancient religion is riddled with myth and legend. So, tell me where in the unbroken genealogy of mankind [Luke 3] we can say, for sure, that myth gave way to an accurate record of the generations of Adam.
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The argument of the Declaration of Independence is with respect to the pursuit of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which is kind of abated when one is killed in the womb. The pursuit of the Democratic party is to give access to abortion to the time of birth, and past in some cases where health care is stopped. As for the abortion industry, it was started by a woman trying to reduce the number of black babies, and apparently there have been 63 million abortions since Roe versus Wade, and 40% have been minority babies. The women who voted for Biden were looking for free abortions on demand, and an end to their student debt, all apparently with no constitutional provisions. The men who voted for Biden, well, who knows, maybe they related to his condition.
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    You cannot compare science and religion from the perspective of objectivity by definition. Science is objective by definition, because it is based on predictable objective observations of our physical existence that can be accepted by the majority of scientists. The conclusions of writers and believers based on the text are subjective and anecdotal, because there are no objective predictable observations that can confirm beliefs. Therefore there are many different interpretations of groups of believers and non-believers that do not agree on the conclusions.

    The Bible itself is not Revelation. It is a compilation of writings of those that believe in God and Revelation. The conclusion of the writers and those that believe by faith in the God of the Bible and Revelation is subjective and anecdotal by definition.

    The genealogies of the Bible are not remotely reliable, incomplete and do not fit the known archaeological evidence of some of those in the genealogies Yes the Bible and other ancient religions are riddled with myth and legend and not reliable as a historical record of our physical existence. The Creation myth with Adam and Eve and Noah's flood are classic mythologies evolved from more ancient Sumerian records. There is absolutely no objective archaeological evidence that can confirm the genealogies, Adam and Eve and Noah's flood.

    Your posts are often confusing mixing concepts of what is objective and subjective by simple definitions in the English language. Hint: The word objective comes from the ability to confirm an 'object' by predictable verifiable physical evidence.
     
    #237 shunyadragon, Jan 27, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
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  18. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    No, science is not objective by definition. Science is undertaken by men, and there remains an element of subjectivity in the conclusions reached.

    If the observations can only be accepted by 'the majority of scientists' then one cannot call the observations 'objective'. You could argue that the weight of evidence grows as the number of scientific observations agree, but you cannot call this 'objectivity'. Agreed?
     
  19. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    This does not answer my question.

    If you believe that the Biblical genealogies, which are numerous, and run from Adam to Jesus, are full of myth and error, then it should be possible for you to be specific in your criticism. Therefore, I ask again, Where does the myth end and the true history begin? Or, do you not believe that Israel has a real history as a nation?
     
  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    This post does not make sense in terms of the elementary level knowledge of the English language and science.

    Again::Hint: The word objective comes from the ability to confirm an 'object' by predictable verifiable physical evidence.

    You are failing to respond to my posts in an understanding of the basics of the English language.
     
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