• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Businesses Requiring Vaccine Passports

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member

If a store owner decides to make taking vaccines mandatory, it takes away a customer's right to go to a store they've been going to for years. Literally forcing a person to either get the vaccine or not would force that costumer to go to another store. While most people will take the vaccine, and that store won't loose money, the ethical issues (mandating vaccines over people's free will) is totally off key.
 

Suave

Simulated character
Well, two doses of the Pfizer or Moderna have a 95% efficacy. You can still get the virus after being vaccinated but you won't end up on a ventilator or die. And

"All three vaccines were 100% effective at preventing severe disease six weeks after the first dose (for Moderna) or seven weeks after the first dose (for Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson, the latter of which requires only one dose). Zero vaccinated people in any of the trials were hospitalized or died of COVID-19 after the vaccines had fully taken effect."

COVID-19 vaccines: What does 95% efficacy actually mean?

Of course your antibodies will not last forever, so annual boosters will be required, I think.
Does this mean our vaccination passports will automatically expire one year from date of issue?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It means that after research and assessing the situation, some businesses, nonprofits, and governments organizations decide that people who haven't taken the vaccine pose a significant risk to their employees and/or other customers, and also may get ill via transmission on their premises from people who are vaccine-protected but infected spreaders.

How much of a risk?

I went to my bank years ago who said as a private bank they can turn down people who aren't wearing masks even if that person has exemptions. If someone has a breathing problem, they can literally tell them they can't go into the bank. The lady said "we can't ask who is sick and who is not so we have to have the same criteria for all costumers." So, seeing a group of people at risk without knowing who actually is (percentage wise at least) is really pushing it.

COVID isn't a plague and people do get better. Even some people on RF had COVID and they do get better. So, I see it's going to be a huge problem... and I'm not sure of generalizing nonvaccinated people as high risk people is borderline discriminating.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Exactly. We walked away with different conclusions after research.
Exactly. People don't do actual research and call their uninformed opinions 'research driven conclusions.'

If you think the vaccine is going to be dangerous for you, there's a 99.99% chance you are just flat out dead out wrong. And if you don't have a history of some pretty specific protein allergies, than I am going to reject that conclusion as the nonsense that it is.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
How much of a risk?

I went to my bank years ago who said as a private bank they can turn down people who aren't wearing masks even if that person has exemptions. If someone has a breathing problem, they can literally tell them they can't go into the bank. The lady said "we can't ask who is sick and who is not so we have to have the same criteria for all costumers." So, seeing a group of people at risk without knowing who actually is (percentage wise at least) is really pushing it.

COVID isn't a plague and people do get better. Even some people on RF had COVID and they do get better. So, I see it's going to be a huge problem... and I'm not sure of generalizing nonvaccinated people as high risk people is borderline discriminating.
Obviously, enough of a risk to decide they want customers and/or employees to be vaccinated, wear masks.

You have apparently decided--for them--that the risk level is really low enough for you to enter their place of business at will.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Wearing masks isn't a medical treatment and require someone to do something isn't the same as a it being a law (which they may make it one, who knows). We're not in lockdown anymore, though I think they are thinking about it. We still have required masks and social distancing in businesses. Which is fine and irritating but that's totally different than taking a medical treatment.
Medical treatment....that has the potential to stop a global pandemic?
Priorities guys
Still a private business can require anything it wants of its customers.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Exactly. People don't do actual research and call their uninformed opinions 'research driven conclusions.'

If you think the vaccine is going to be dangerous for you, there's a 99.99% chance you are just flat out dead out wrong. And if you don't have a history of some pretty specific protein allergies, than I am going to reject that conclusion as the nonsense that it is.

Well, people who believe the vaccine will help 100% could be wrong too. I've never taken vaccines. I figure, if it's not broke, don't fix it. A lot of treatments work, that doesn't mean everyone should take it no matter how good it may be and how many people take it.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
I like the idea.
Businesses could open sooner.
Things would be safer.
But it's racist.
Blacks are less likely to get vaccinated.
Whaddaya think?
On paper, it is a good idea. But it has limitations. If something like this becomes mandatory, fakes will be an issue. Further, the burden is still on the business to enforce this thing. If you think getting people to wear a mask is hard, now imagine they have to provide documentation. I wish them the best of luck with that.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Obviously, enough of a risk to decide they want customers and/or employees to be vaccinated, wear masks.

You have apparently decided--for them--that the risk level is really low enough for you to enter their place of business at will.

Yes. It depends on many factors. Someone with a low population would have lower risk than someone in a higher population area. Private businesses can do whatever they want, that doesn't excuse that its still forcing people to take this treatment against their will so they can be comfortable shopping where-ever need be. Wearing masks isn't a medical treatment. So, that's irritating but not criminal. Taking the vaccine is a totally different ballgame.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, people who believe the vaccine will help 100% could be wrong too. I've never taken vaccines. I figure, if it's not broke, don't fix it. A lot of treatments work, that doesn't mean everyone should take it no matter how good it may be and how many people take it.
Normally I’d agree. But vaccinations are not the same as a paracetamol or even blood transfusions.
Such decisions are completely private and can even be a matter of religious beliefs. Such matters only affect the person and thus accomodations must be made for any decision made.
Vaccines affect the greater population. If you are not vaccinated against say, whooping cough, you then have the potential to infect and even kill another person’s child. Even if you are completely asymptomatic. Thus I see it as a matter of social responsibility. Which in my view overrides personal decisions.
I don’t get to decide that I can safely travel over the speed limit, even if I theoretically could. I have a social responsibility to ignore my own “research” on the matter
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Medical treatment....that has the potential to stop a global pandemic?
Priorities guys
Still a private business can require anything it wants of its customers.

Only if someone is asymptomatic. There really needs to be more evidence to assume there is such a high risk factor. Saying there's a high risk doesn't mean it is. Businesses can do whatever they want, but I do still find it unethical to require people to be vaccinated to shop in their store. It's not a cure and ideally businesses shouldn't ask who has illnesses etc before going in their store.... so there will be a huge issue involved. I just disagree with the whole idea of it.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Republicans are up in arms...

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) has urged his state’s GOP-controlled legislature to pass a law forbidding passes

DeSantis is pro-big government passing laws and using the power of the state to enforce them. He's no libertarian.

Because you shouldn't be forced to get an experimental vaccine from a shady company just to function as normal in society. I'm not going to be the guinea pig for this.

Experimental when millions upon millions of people have gotten the jab? Sure, in the beginning, being cautious was very reasonable. Now the evidence is overwhelming that the vaccines are safe and effective.

Shady company? I guess you're an anti-business type, more anti-business than AOC. Presumably you want the government to do all the work, ie, standard government runs everything.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Whaddaya think?
It's a great idea, amd I love it, because many of those jerks are getting clamped down in they way they want to discriminate agaisnt LGBT. Except we don't spread deadly disease.
As they like to say--no matter how rural or what's actually around them because it doesn't matter when they want this against others--go some where else.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Only if someone is asymptomatic. There really needs to be more evidence to assume there is such a high risk factor. Saying there's a high risk doesn't mean it is. Businesses can do whatever they want, but I do still find it unethical to require people to be vaccinated to shop in their store. It's not a cure and ideally businesses shouldn't ask who has illnesses etc before going in their store.... so there will be a huge issue involved. I just disagree with the whole idea of it.
I don't find it unethical. Hard, perhaps very hard to enforce, but that's not an ethical question but a question of practicality.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Even if some can't, we shouldn't sacrifice public safety for them.
I agree. The laws that people try to rely on to say that they do not need to wear masks are aimed are ignoring the fact that the law does not apply when they are a threat to others. They may not understand the threat, but it still exist.

Right now the unvaccinated are a bigger threat to others than the vaccinated. I am at a lesser risk to others since I had Covid and recovered, but there is no "I had Covid" passport. Others cannot know this. And I still plan to get vaccinated since it should only increase my immunity. I still wear a mask when I am out and even after being vaccinated I will continue to do so until the measures are relaxed. We all need to do our share and wearing a mask is a very very minor inconvenience.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Only if someone is asymptomatic. There really needs to be more evidence to assume there is such a high risk factor. Saying there's a high risk doesn't mean it is. Businesses can do whatever they want, but I do still find it unethical to require people to be vaccinated to shop in their store. It's not a cure and ideally businesses shouldn't ask who has illnesses etc before going in their store.... so there will be a huge issue involved. I just disagree with the whole idea of it.
A vaccine is a prevention. What’s that phrase again?
Vaccines affect us all, not just you. If you don’t get a vaccine for whatever. Smallpox or chickenpox or the Spanish flu, your decision affects other people by potentially infecting them. In fact people “deciding” to not vaccinate literally undoes the actual vaccines already in flux. That’s why we had resurgences of diseases that were previously eradicated. Thanks anti vaxxers.
So are you saying your decision is of greater importance than the safety of society?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Normally I’d agree. But vaccinations are not the same as a paracetamol or even blood transfusions.
Such decisions are completely private and can even be a matter of religious beliefs. Such matters only affect the person and thus accomodations must be made for any decision made.
Vaccines affect the greater population. If you are not vaccinated against say, whooping cough, you then have the potential to infect and even kill another person’s child. Even if you are completely asymptomatic. Thus I see it as a matter of social responsibility. Which in my view overrides personal decisions.
I don’t get to decide that I can safely travel over the speed limit, even if I theoretically could. I have a social responsibility to ignore my own “research” on the matter

The thing is, potential, risk, maybe, could be, and so forth isn't evidence that there "is" a high risk and thus should make vaccines mandatory. I agree it's a private decision, but I wouldn't say that it is secondary to social responsibility.

I wouldn't compare it to driving over the speed limit. It's a "just in case" scenario. You "will" get pulled over for driving over the speed limit if a cop sees you. But the vaccine is a just in case: You "may/have the potential" to spread the virus "if" you have symptoms of the virus.

I see it can be a social responsibility for someone who is working with people with the virus, loved ones, in a medical facility, and so forth-not an everyday Joe.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
A vaccine is a prevention. What’s that phrase again?
Vaccines affect us all, not just you. If you don’t get a vaccine for whatever. Smallpox or chickenpox or the Spanish flu, your decision affects other people by potentially infecting them. In fact people “deciding” to not vaccinate literally undoes the actual vaccines already in flux. That’s why we had resurgences of diseases that were previously eradicated. Thanks anti vaxxers.
So are you saying your decision is of greater importance than the safety of society?

COVID isn't a plague. That's the difference.
 
Top