Businesses Requiring Vaccine Passports

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm against "sovereign citizen" nonsense where people think they can ignore the rules if they don't like them.

I heard california is near to martial law, so says news gossip

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hmm. I have issues with that too...

Plague I mean you catch it, you die. It's not a death sentence. Some people on RF had COVID and they got better. It's just a virus-not from an alien planet or so have you.

I don't understand your point here.
Not everyone who got the plague died from it either. Didn't mean it was any less dangerous, right, just because some people survived?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nobody is being forced.
Don't want the vaccine, don't get one, but you don't get to shop in a store that requires them. You'll have to go to another store that doesn't require them.
Nobody has a right to shop at any particular store in any way they see fit. Try getting into a store with no shoes or shirt on.

It is forced. It's coercion to make people to do something to get something else they valued and have been getting for their whole life.

Going in the store with no shoes on is a horrible example.

What you're saying is a guilt trip and saying, "well, if you don't want to, you're ... out of luck."

--So... you've been going to this grocery store for years, oops! You can't go in unless we give you a shot.

--You've been going to this pharmacy for years.... sorry... no meds until you get the shot.

--Oh, you said you had to go to work, huh... can't come in until you get a shot.

--Oh, you want to go and pray to god and spend time in the church, sorry... you need a shot first before you can talk to god.

Not wearing shoes, shirt, and masks to go to the store is fine. No one is going to kill you if they say no.

Taking a vaccine is not shoes/shirts/mask.... it's literally putting something inside your body for health reasons that should not be coerced or being given a guilt trip because of the majority regardless how many deaths there are.

I was reading the news earlier yesterday, and the vaccine was compared to wearing the Star of David. They already have an app passport for it (as so found on my googleplay), and Biden is deciding now whether or not we should use it in gyms, regular businesses, and so forth. The news are gossiping that California may go into martial law.

It is forced. People are not being pushed and shoved, you're being coerced and pressured. What was weird is throughout this time, people been chanting "it's not for us, it's for others" and examples of seatbelts and shoes/shorts... and other.

Where do they all of the sudden get these things from-especially the former? The news, our governors, have been saying this and now its flooded into the public masked by "its our social responsibility" and so forth.

I value people's rights to choose what is medically best for their well being. The only time they need to take meds (etc) by force, is if they IS in a life threatening emergency. Until then, safe than sorry is fine but not pressure, coercion, and chanting these statements to form guilt. Even on RF its the same-can you imagine thousands of people watching the media, listening to news, looking at stats on the internet, and RF people quoting stats as if that will change people's decisions to know what's best for their own health? (That's why they say ask your doctor first before getting any medical and/or legal advice)

Anyway. As long as the unvaccinated aren't treated like dogs, have black/white bathrooms, and seen as having the Star of David, I'm pretty content where I am unless my SITUATION says otherwise.

 

[esmith]

Just wondering if this is racist......having to have an ID to shop?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't understand your point here.
Not everyone who got the plague died from it either. Didn't mean it was any less dangerous, right, just because some people survived?

You're splitting hairs, though. It's not a disease that has a 100% death sentence. I used the word plague, but the context is its only deadly depending on the person's health and certain risk factors not in and of itself regardless the person infected.

 

[SkepticThinker]

They was a century ago. I was talking about people who couldn't be vaccinated for medical reasons. In my state, anyone over 16 can be vaccinated. So I could get it if I want to, I just don't want to. But what if someone who is high risk for severe illness from Covid wanted it, could get it and those who had personal objections to it didn't have to? Why isn't this good enough, for those who want the vaccine to get it while allowing those who don't want it to refuse? The ones vaccinated would still be protected and would have nothing to worry about, if the vaccines work. That's the way America mostly always was. Why change it now?

There are some people who can't get vaccines for health reasons, including babies. Including my 4-year-old niece and my 32 year-old co-worker. Those people are at risk if we don't get as many people vaccinated as we can.

I think it's interesting that people seem bent on forcing the Covid vaccine on everyone but we actually have medications to treat/manage and even prevent HIV infections, but I don't see PrEP being forced on everyone. Hell, many people still can't even afford it and these drugs have been available for years. Even though if you gave it to everyone who was HIV-, it could literally wipe out HIV in a generation. And HIV still has no cure (once you have it, you'll not have it), has nearly a 100% fatality rate and has killed at least 32 million people.

I just don't understand some things.

There is a huge difference in the way HIV is transmitted versus the way COVID is transmitted.

 

[We Never Know]

How U.S. Cities Tried to Halt the Spread of the 1918 Spanish Flu

The main difference from then and now is people took it seriously back then when it started. With covid people turned it political and thought it was a hoax. Over a year and a half million deaths later some still think its a hoax. Even some of our government leaders portrayed it as a hoax which lead to people not taking it seriously which is why the US was and has been hit so hard.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And I can suddenly get in a car accident.
I am not one to live in fear of what might happen, I already have too many things that are happening.

So when you drive a car you don't wear a seatbelt? You don't follow the speed limits? You don't check your rearview mirrors before backing up or changing lanes?
You wouldn't want to live in fear of what "might happen," right?

 

[SkepticThinker]

And it would suddenly be 100% if everyone got the vaccine?

Nothing is 100% except that we will all die someday. The question is why so many people are afraid of dying.
It is their right to be afraid of dying but it is not their right to tell other people what they should do because of their fears and then assail their character, calling them selfish and irrational.

Perhaps people would prefer to lead a nice full life for as long as they can rather than dying prematurely on a ventilator from a preventable illness (or suffering the long-term effects of COVID).

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Just wondering if this is racist......having to have an ID to shop?

If the ID for an essential service costs money then it will adversely effect the poor, which has further deleterious effects on minorities of all stripes.

If the ID for essential services is because you're afraid of brown people fighting back against social injustice, then it's racist.

This is neither.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It is forced. It's coercion to make people to do something to get something else they valued and have been getting for their whole life.

Except that it's not forced. And there are no threats.
You simply can't enter the business. Their business, their choice. They'd probably not like to risk making their customers and staff ill, don't you think?

Going in the store with no shoes on is a horrible example.

It's a perfect example of store policy trumping your individual desires.

What you're saying is a guilt trip and saying, "well, if you don't want to, you're ... out of luck."

Yep. If you like walking around with no shirt on, there are very few stores that are going to let you in.
We're all just used to this by now because it's been a rule for so long.

--So... you've been going to this grocery store for years, oops! You can't go in unless we give you a shot.

You've been going to the grocery store for years? So what, you don't own the grocery store. Sometimes things change. You don't have an inherent right to keep going to a specific grocery store that you like.

--You've been going to this pharmacy for years.... sorry... no meds until you get the shot.

I can't go into the pharmacy right now without a mask on. If I choose not to wear one, I don't get the meds I need. Tough luck for me. But I don't have a right to demand the store cater to my personal whims.

--Oh, you said you had to go to work, huh... can't come in until you get a shot.

I work with one person who is immunocompromised and another that has severe asthma. Both could be potentially risking their lives if they came into work. I would hate to transmit COVID to either of them. This is all about more than just ourselves.

--Oh, you want to go and pray to god and spend time in the church, sorry... you need a shot first before you can talk to god.

Every church in the area where I live have actually been responsibly and have been closed with online services for almost the entirety of the pandemic.
Seems like they've been a lot more responsible than some others I could mention.

You can "talk to god" from just about anywhere, I always thought. You don't need to be in a special building in order to do that. At least, that's what I was taught. God is everywhere.

Not wearing shoes, shirt, and masks to go to the store is fine. No one is going to kill you if they say no.

No one is going to kill you if they say no?
Are you under the impression that somebody is going to kill you if you walk into a store without a vaccine?

Taking a vaccine is not shoes/shirts/mask.... it's literally putting something inside your body for health reasons that should not be coerced or being given a guilt trip because of the majority regardless how many deaths there are.

Then don't get a vaccine, and don't go into stores that require them for entry.

I was reading the news earlier yesterday, and the vaccine was compared to wearing the Star of David. They already have an app passport for it (as so found on my googleplay), and Biden is deciding now whether or not we should use it in gyms, regular businesses, and so forth. The news are gossiping that California may go into martial law.

Sorry but I find such comparisons to be overreactive and ridiculous.

It is forced. People are not being pushed and shoved, you're being coerced and pressured. What was weird is throughout this time, people been chanting "it's not for us, it's for others" and examples of seatbelts and shoes/shorts... and other.

It's not being forced at all. Is someone holding you down forcing you to be injected? Does someone have a gun to your head?

Where do they all of the sudden get these things from-especially the former? The news, our governors, have been saying this and now its flooded into the public masked by "its our social responsibility" and so forth.

I value people's rights to choose what is medically best for their well being. The only time they need to take meds (etc) by force, is if they IS in a life threatening emergency. Until then, safe than sorry is fine but not pressure, coercion, and chanting these statements to form guilt. Even on RF its the same-can you imagine thousands of people watching the media, listening to news, looking at stats on the internet, and RF people quoting stats as if that will change people's decisions to know what's best for their own health? (That's why they say ask your doctor first before getting any medical and/or legal advice)

I too, value peoples' right to choose what is medically best for their well being. I also value the rights of others who choose not to endanger their staff and customers by potentially exposing them to a highly transmissible/deadly/damaging virus in their place of business.

Anyway. As long as the unvaccinated aren't treated like dogs, have black/white bathrooms, and seen as having the Star of David, I'm pretty content where I am unless my SITUATION says otherwise.

How are the unvaccinated being treated like dogs? Because dogs aren't allowed in stores?




Please don't even bother trying to turn this into a Nazi thing. I find that beyond ridiculous.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You're splitting hairs, though. It's not a disease that has a 100% death sentence. I used the word plague, but the context is its only deadly depending on the person's health and certain risk factors not in and of itself regardless the person infected.

The plague was not a disease that had a 100% death sentence. I'm sure there were certain risk factors that made people more susceptible to contracting the plague, same as COVID or any other virus or disease.

So again, I don't see what your point is with this.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's why people are going crazy, attacking people at our nation's capitol, and so forth because BOTH pro/anti vaccine, mask, and all are fighting, cursing, and arguing with each other as if these attitudes somehow are more affective in helping the people suffering from COVID... its counterproductive. The whole debate is ridiculous; and, media, internet, fear, and confirmed bias are just making it worse.

Except that it's not forced. And there are no threats.

You simply can't enter the business. Their business, their choice. They'd probably not like to risk making their customers and staff ill, don't you think?

It is coercion, by definition. It means that if you don't do X, you can't do Y; and, you get punished if you do Y, if you don't do X... it's literally placing a guilt trip no matter how justified on people to where their decisions are "said" to be causing people to be in danger.

So, basically, some of you guys are saying that if they don't don't take the vaccine, wear masks, etc... you ARE putting people in danger. That's ridiculous.

Businesses can do whatever they want to do.

That does not mean I agree with it.

Well, some businesses are more relaxed about masks, but since vaccine and vaccine passports may work more efficiently than masks, it would probably be more enforced either by choice of the business and/or its required of them.

It's a perfect example of store policy trumping your individual desires.

You're attacking me for disagreeing with a policy that may be put in place. It has nothing to do with my desires and I am not a trump fan.

Disagree with vaccines does not mean anti-vaccine. Too much politics in your statements. I'm just sharing an opinion.

Yep. If you like walking around with no shirt on, there are very few stores that are going to let you in.

We're all just used to this by now because it's been a rule for so long.

I don't compare the two. Pandemic vs. shirt/shoe policy?

You've been going to the grocery store for years? So what, you don't own the grocery store. Sometimes things change. You don't have an inherent right to keep going to a specific grocery store that you like.

You're making my opinion into an argument. If you got my point, I'm glad.

But no. I still disagree with needing vaccine passports to go buy groceries, to the bank, to the gym, to go to the bar, and so forth.

It doesn't matter what I like. Opinions can't change anything. I'm not an activist and never been political. So, stop the accusations.

I can't go into the pharmacy right now without a mask on. If I choose not to wear one, I don't get the meds I need. Tough luck for me. But I don't have a right to demand the store cater to my personal whims.

But masks is just material. I went into a store without a mask because I forgot it. The manager didn't shove me out of the store. I bought a new mask in the store and left out with it on.

I have a huge feeling it won't be that simple with vaccine passports. It's going to be a mess.

I work with one person who is immunocompromised and another that has severe asthma. Both could be potentially risking their lives if they came into work. I would hate to transmit COVID to either of them. This is all about more than just ourselves.

Yes. I know. No one is saying that everyone else should not get the vaccine.

If you want to force it on everyone, that's you. Not all people will agree to that. To turn this around, your opinions don't change anything-you just the majority on your side.

Every church in the area where I live have actually been responsibly and have been closed with online services for almost the entirety of the pandemic.

Seems like they've been a lot more responsible than some others I could mention.

You can "talk to god" from just about anywhere, I always thought. You don't need to be in a special building in order to do that. At least, that's what I was taught. God is everywhere.

You got my point?

No one is going to kill you if they say no?

Are you under the impression that somebody is going to kill you if you walk into a store without a vaccine?

You got my point?

Then don't get a vaccine, and don't go into stores that require them for entry.

It's just silly. I can't imagine you guys tell unvaccinated people to stay at home and order out... good luck on you. That's more than just an opinion, Skeptic.

Sorry but I find such comparisons to be overreactive and ridiculous.

When they have to do with the pandemic and medicine and treatments and such, comparing it to masks/shoes/etc is really pushing it.

But I get your point.

It's not being forced at all. Is someone holding you down forcing you to be injected? Does someone have a gun to your head?

Please re-read my post. I said "not pushed or shoved," it's coercion.

I too, value peoples' right to choose what is medically best for their well being. I also value the rights of others who choose not to endanger their staff and customers by potentially exposing them to a highly transmissible/deadly/damaging virus in their place of business.

In my observation, you only value peoples' rights when they agree with your opinions.

How are the unvaccinated being treated like dogs? Because dogs aren't allowed in stores?

Another RF member mentioned that. But my point is I wouldn't be surprised if people like many on RF don't mind separating vaccinated from unvaccinated and throwing them off to the wolves.

RF is kind of giving me a sense of what people think when I walk by them. It's an interesting observation but I hope it doesn't turn dangerous in person.

Don't know about "because dogs aren't allowed in stores" comment and how that relates.

Please don't even bother trying to turn this into a Nazi thing. I find that beyond ridiculous.

That's what I heard yesterday... they were comparing it to the Nazi thing. I was going to do a thread on it, but it was too sensitive a topic.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The plague was not a disease that had a 100% death sentence. I'm sure there were certain risk factors that made people more susceptible to contracting the plague, same as COVID or any other virus or disease.

So again, I don't see what your point is with this.

COVID is not a 100% death sentence like some plagues.

Point: COVID is not 100% death sentence, and we're not in danger because risk levels depends on many factors. If you're in immediate danger of a virus, so have you, the risk factors determinants drop if near to none; it's definite fatality.

Forget the word plague.

 

[esmith]

If the ID for an essential service costs money then it will adversely effect the poor, which has further deleterious effects on minorities of all stripes.

If the ID for essential services is because you're afraid of brown people fighting back against social injustice, then it's racist.

This is neither.

I'm suggesting that the idea that businesses requiring vaccine passports is an ID.
You also have to have a Real ID to access federal facilities, boarding commercial aircraft. Is this also racist....A "Real ID" considerably more expensive than just a ID
What are you actually attempting to say????

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm suggesting that the idea that businesses requiring vaccine passports is an ID.
You also have to have a Real ID to access federal facilities, boarding commercial aircraft. Is this also racist....A "Real ID" considerably more expensive than just a ID
What are you actually attempting to say????

RealID costs money, which adversely effect the poor, and comes with baggage pushed by conservatives for voter suppression. None of these problems exist with a vaccine passport, which is free. I literally already have my vaccine card just by showing up for the subsidized shot.

 

[sun rise]

I heard california is near to martial law, so says news gossip

I don't know what your "news gossip" source is, but they have a fertile imagination and an apparent dark gaslighting motive.

 

[sun rise]

RealID costs money, which adversely effect the poor, and comes with baggage pushed by conservatives for voter suppression. None of these problems exist with a vaccine passport, which is free. I literally already have my vaccine card just by showing up for the subsidized shot.

Real ID is idiotic. It requires much more than is needed for a passport. I got a passport card which is perfect ID for everything that a "real ID" is used for with the crap that real ID requires.

It's a classic example of intrusive bureaucracy making people's lives more difficult for no good reason.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't know what your "news gossip" source is, but they have a fertile imagination and an apparent dark gaslighting motive.

Its just news gossip (meaning they haven't confirmed, they're just talking about it).

Martial law: Here's what can and can't happen in the US - CNN Video

Heated Oval Office meeting included talk of special counsel and martial law - CNN Video

Newsom Threatens Martial Law as California Begins Taking Over Hospitals

Whether they do it or not, is a different story.

 

[averageJOE]

Going in the store with no shoes on is a horrible example.

I think it is too. If you walk up to a store with a No shirt, no shoes policy and you don't have either on, you can simply put on a shirt and shoes, shop, and when you leave you can take them off. Same with a mask. I can walk up to the store without a mask, put one on, shop, and take it off when I leave. You can't "unvaccinate". It's almost more comparable to a tattoo.