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Featured Burden of Proof VS Presumption of Innocence

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by questfortruth, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    #1 questfortruth, Jun 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  2. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    Actually, the bible tells us that we're all born sinful. We're presumed to be guilty the second we're born.
     
  3. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Doesn't the idea of original sin contradict all of this?
     
  4. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    Yes.
     
  5. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    Concerning this topic, I believe we are all born without sin; a clean slate to begin our lives free as the birds flying by

    Then we start making choices & it is the choices we make that can lead to sinful ways
     
  6. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    It is not the Presumption of guilt, because this guilt is proven: Faith is the Faithfulness to Knowledge.
    Nobody is wrong, until proven wrong. But the new born baby is proven wrong by the Church (Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:23 KJV). He needs the Holy Baptism.
     
    #6 questfortruth, Jun 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    The burden of proof "a human can be treated as he is already wrong, until he would be proven right" is the more cruel "son" of the Presumption of Guilt.
     
  8. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Beyond mere claims in scripture, how is this guilt proven?
     
  9. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    What can be demonstrated to one, who blasphemes the Truth? My Bible is proven.
     
  10. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    In other words, you have nothing. The Bible is propaganda written by priests to uphold their power.
     
  11. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    The Bible is proven. Do you need the proofs?
     
  12. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Please.
     
  13. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    The Bible is the Book of mine Church. Mine Church is proven here:
     
  14. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    How in any way does this prove the truth of the Bible? It *assumes* that the Bible is correct. It does not *prove* it. For that matter, it doesn't even prove there is a deity.
     
  15. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    Because mine Church is True, it has no falsehoods in it. The Bible is in it, so the Bible is True to God.
     
  16. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    I'm asking respectfully. How is it proven to be the truth??
     
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Prove your Church has no falsehoods. In particular, prove the existence of a deity.
     
  18. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    I have the video in the above post. It shows: my church is the non-corrupted "Church of Acts".
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I'll only go so far as to say we're all born.
    (Except for lawyers. They're hatched.)
    After that, we become who we'll be.
     
  20. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    You simply do not understand spiritual things. If you could you wouldn't make such a mistake.

    No one is "treated as he is already wrong." He already is wrong. Unborn children and children who die at a young age actually go to heaven as referenced with David's child in the book of Kings. God doesn't hold young children responsible for their sin.

    God actually treats us with grace since He doesn't kill us after we commit a few sins. He gives us time to repent because He loves us. And even then God doesn't kill us, we end up dying because of sin.
     
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