Buddhism Debate

[The Sum of Awe]

yes you can get what you want for a limited time , but sooner or later the suffering will catch up with you ,

Again, the suffering of a headache isn't too bad. You don't always suffer from doing what you want BTW, suffering doesn't have to catch up to you.

 

[ratikala]

Headaches aren't too big of a deal, just not fun to have.

We all suffer a little bit in our lives, no matter what we do, and why not suffer from having a blast?

yes , by all means have a blast , and the insuing suffering you can endure ,

but then the occasional blast becomes a regular thing , the suffering increases ,
and to drown the suffering you have another blast , and another , and another !

I had a friend like that , first it was a harmless puff of coke , then a little heroin to bring you down , before he knew it he was no longer in control ,
next stop prison , followed by a sence of failure , followed by more heroin , followed by more prison , followed by a worse sence of failure .......
untill he lost all family and friends , and for all I know is now dead ,

end of suffering ?
no not for his mother ,
not for his children ,
not for his friends ,

o.k so that is an extreme ?

but then all extremes start with a harmless little indulgence

and for all we know by now he is dead

 

[The Sum of Awe]

yes , by all means have a blast , and the insuing suffering you can endure ,

but then the occasional blast becomes a regular thing , the suffering increases ,
and to drown the suffering you have another blast , and another , and another !

I had a friend like that , first it was a harmless puff of coke , then a little heroin to bring you down , before he knew it he was no longer in control ,
next stop prison , followed by a sence of failure , followed by more heroin , followed by more prison , followed by a worse sence of failure .......
untill he lost all family and friends , and for all I know is now dead ,

end of suffering ?
no not for his mother ,
not for his children ,
not for his friends ,

o.k so that is an extreme ?

but then all extremes start with a harmless little indulgence

and for all we know by now he is dead

Yeah, that's indulging on dope... Doesn't mean it always works like that when you overindulge.

Again, if it becomes a problem in where you are having more suffering than a blast, change your interests.

 

[ratikala]

Yeah, that's indulging on dope... Doesn't mean it always works like that when you overindulge.

Again, if it becomes a problem in where you are having more suffering than a blast, change your interests.

it is not allways so easy ,

people allways think that they can change at any given time , but when that time comes they find that it is not so easy !
in general people like to think that they are in control , then comes the suffering when they find that they are not !

 

[CynthiaCypher]

it is not allways so easy ,

people allways think that they can change at any given time , but when that time comes they find that it is not so easy !
in general people like to think that they are in control , then comes the suffering when they find that they are not !

Yup so-called harmless habits often becomes addictions that become our lifestyle which in turn determines our destiny

 

[The Sum of Awe]

it is not allways so easy ,

people allways think that they can change at any given time , but when that time comes they find that it is not so easy !
in general people like to think that they are in control , then comes the suffering when they find that they are not !

With dope, probably not.

But for a lot of things, people can be pretty happy while living a selfish life, and sometimes even on dope.

 

[religion99]

IMHO, Buddhism is nothing but watered down version of Jainism, pre-packaged for those who are either unwilling or unable to practise REAL austerity.

 

[Engyo]

IMHO, Buddhism is nothing but watered down version of Jainism, pre-packaged for those who are either unwilling or unable to practise REAL austerity.

Is austerity the path to enlightenment, or is it a goal in itself? If so, what are the benefits of practicing austerity?

 

[Me Myself]

I bet you that he felt pain.

Most people would... but he does not look like he is suffering at all.

 

[religion99]

Austerity is path to enlightenment , not the goal.

"Real Austerity" is the necessary but not the sufficient condition for enlightenment. Buddha and Buddhism didn't preach real austerity and hence can be discarded as "not enlightened" without any need of further investigation because it doesn't satisfy the necessary condition for enlightenment.

 

[Me Myself]

IMHO, Buddhism is nothing but watered down version of Jainism, pre-packaged for those who are either unwilling or unable to practise REAL austerity.

idk, there is a point on not being overly austhere. If don´t eat that much, your mind is not as clear as if you are relatively healthy. It does make sense the way I see it.

 

[religion99]

idk, there is a point on not being overly austhere. If don´t eat that much, your mind is not as clear as if you are relatively healthy. It does make sense the way I see it.

I agree. But , allowing the eating of flesh to Monks certainly doesn't fell like a true path to enlightenment. That kind of freedom takes a Buddhist Monk lower than an Atheist Vegetarian in conventional ranking of "goodness".

 

[ratikala]

I agree. But , allowing the eating of flesh to Monks certainly doesn't fell like a true path to enlightenment. That kind of freedom takes a Buddhist Monk lower than an Atheist Vegetarian in conventional ranking of "goodness".

dear religion 99

let a jain practice jain dharma , and a buddhist practice his ,

and be glad that each is practicing something , after all every one has to start somewhere !

as a buddhist having to accept meat would be an extreme austerity , fortunately I have the luxuary of choosing my own diet .

accepting alms is an austerity in it self think carefully about that one !

one should never criticise anothers path .

 

[Me Myself]

I agree. But , allowing the eating of flesh to Monks certainly doesn't fell like a true path to enlightenment. That kind of freedom takes a Buddhist Monk lower than an Atheist Vegetarian in conventional ranking of "goodness".

In that specific area.

If I remember correctly, this was because they were beggars, they couldn´t turn down what was put on their plate (to what I won´t say if it is good or bad for now). But I guess it´s not that important now, to what i go is:

That is just a part of Buddhism, to say it as a whole is a "por man´s" jainism I would still think it´s kind of unrefined.

There are different premises and the disagreements are not always so black and white.

 

[religion99]

In that specific area.

If I remember correctly, this was because they were beggars, they couldn´t turn down what was put on their plate (to what I won´t say if it is good or bad for now). But I guess it´s not that important now, to what i go is:

That is just a part of Buddhism, to say it as a whole is a "por man´s" jainism I would still think it´s kind of unrefined.

There are different premises and the disagreements are not always so black and white.

In case conventions were changed temporarily due to bad times , it should have been mentioned in the book and instructions should have been mentioned in the book to revert back when the times are good.

Reality is Buddha accepted Jainism during initial phase of his life. He was not comfortable with it because of it's strict austerity. Hence , he started a new religion for his own benefit and not to enlighten the world.

 

[Me Myself]

Reality is Buddha accepted Jainism during initial phase of his life. He was not comfortable with it because of it's strict austerity. Hence , he started a new religion for his own benefit and not to enlighten the world.

Reality is unless you have developped any siddhis you wish to share, there is no way you can know today the intentions of a person that lived milennias ago.

Furthermore, there is no greater benefit than enlightment, so if he did manage to benefit himself, he also showed everyone a new path to such enlightment.

You conceded my point of it being easier to attain enlightment without fasting in some cases, and with situation like that, to give up something that is not helping you reach your goal (enlightment) is the lucid thing to do.

Once he became enlightened he did enlightened millions of people with his teachings, that keep on even today.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

dear religion 99

let a jain practice jain dharma , and a buddhist practice his ,

and be glad that each is practicing something , after all every one has to start somewhere !

as a buddhist having to accept meat would be an extreme austerity , fortunately I have the luxuary of choosing my own diet .

accepting alms is an austerity in it self think carefully about that one !

one should never criticise anothers path .

but I'm not realy sure that you are as stupid as you are trying to make out ?

 

[idav]

I'm interested in Buddha's wise intake on how to avoid suffering and what causes it, and I can in general agree that attachment causes suffering, or can, but I don't agree that selfishness and overindulging causes suffering.

You can avoid attachment while being overindulgent.


Thoughts?

The idea is you would be able to detach no matter the situation is indulgence in pain or indulgence in pleasure. We can indulge in suffering as much as anything else. Being able to detach from it is nice but just cause you wouldn't be suffering per se doesn't mean others wouldn't.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The idea is you would be able to detach no matter the situation is indulgence in pain or indulgence in pleasure. We can indulge in suffering as much as anything else. Being able to detach from it is nice but just cause you wouldn't be suffering per se doesn't mean others wouldn't.

I'll admit, this does sound kind of harsh, but why does the suffering of others matter?

 

[Me Myself]

I'll admit, this does sound kind of harsh, but why does the suffering of others matter?

Karma, among others.