Buddhism Debate

[sandy whitelinger]

...which has no bearing on this discussion.

I'm interested in Buddha's wise intake on how to avoid suffering and what causes it, and I can in general agree that attachment causes suffering, or can, but I don't agree that selfishness and overindulging causes suffering...Thoughts?

 

[Engyo]

I just want a good explanation of why suffering is wrong.

It's not wrong. It is undesirable.

It's also not 'suffering' based on common english usage, it's dukkha.

 

[ratikala]

allthough you are asking from a buddhist perspective , its prety universal

when you have overindulged just one times too many you will understand that it leads too suffering .

and when selfishness can no longer have its own way , then you will know that it leads too suffering .

but there is only one way to find out , and that is the hard way

but I'm not realy sure that you are as stupid as you are trying to make out ?

depends how you see indulgence ?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I see nothing about it being wrong.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

allthough you are asking from a buddhist perspective , its prety universal

when you have overindulged just one times too many you will understand that it leads too suffering .

Examples that it will make YOU suffer?

and when selfishness can no longer have its own way , then you will know that it leads too suffering .

Have you read what I said? I said not necessarily if you accept things the way they are, not becoming attached but taking it in whenever you can.

but there is only one way to find out , and that is the hard way

That really makes me un-attracted.

but I'm not realy sure that you are as stupid as you are trying to make out ?

...

depends how you see indulgence ?

Getting what is desired.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Would you apply that same logic to yourself? If you were starving and someone (who is obviously not as hungry as you) asked to assess your worth and ration food to you based on that worth, would you find it fair?

Would you find it 'good' that you give a homicidal criminal a piece of bread if they are starving?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I just want a good explanation of why suffering is wrong.

It isn't, just using it in the sense that most people do not enjoy it and Buddhists avoid it.

 

[Straw Dog]

I'm interested in Buddha's wise intake on how to avoid suffering and what causes it, and I can in general agree that attachment causes suffering, or can, but I don't agree that selfishness and overindulging causes suffering.

You can avoid attachment while being overindulgent.


Thoughts?

Perhaps there's nothing wrong with indulging here and there just as there's nothing wrong with abstaining now and again. I think its the extremes of over-indulgence and over-abstinence that becomes harmful to oneself and others.

For instance, drinking a glass of wine is healthy and good for you and yet drinking a whole bottle of wine will probably make you sick and then hungover the next day. Another example would be abstaining from eating food for a long duration of time because one thinks it will bring spiritual enlightenment or eating enormous amounts of food well beyond necessity simply because it tastes good. The Buddha realized the folly and harm of both extremes. The point of practicing moderation is to avoid them.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Perhaps there's nothing wrong with indulging here and there just as there's nothing wrong with abstaining now and again. I think its the extremes of over-indulgence and over-abstinence that becomes harmful to oneself and others.

For instance, drinking a glass of wine is healthy and good for you and yet drinking a whole bottle of wine will probably make you sick and then hungover the next day. Another example would be abstaining from eating food for a long duration of time because one think it will bring spiritual enlightenment or eating enormous amounts of food well beyond necessity simply because it tastes good. The Buddha realized the folly and harm of both extremes. The point of practicing moderation is to avoid them.

I can agree with that I guess.

 

[Me Myself]

I can agree with that I guess.

But he said what buddha said

Middle path my friend.

The middle is different for everyone though. Follow your middle, where you feel you don´t over indulge (so you don´t feel sick afterwards) nor mortificate.

The methahpore of buddha was this:

When the string of a sitara is to loose it won´t make a pretty sound, and if you strain it much it will break. One must look for the right measure, so the sound is sweet and the string, strong.

 

[SCHIZO]

I'm interested in Buddha's wise intake on how to avoid suffering and what causes it, and I can in general agree that attachment causes suffering, or can, but I don't agree that selfishness and overindulging causes suffering.

You can avoid attachment while being overindulgent.


Thoughts?

overindulgence and selfishness causes dependence and dependence is attachment. Try to overindulge and then stop. The effect is felt through the discipline that we keep and then try to quit or alter. If it is my discipline to smoke a cigarette, a pack a day, then try to quit that discipline there is a negative effect due to the dependence of that indulgence. That is attachment. The same could be said, for any discipline. Eating my favorite food and then quitting its consumption causes the same effect. This is not the only way one suffers. Overindulgence itself is an act of suffering because it says of you that you cannot do without. That you require excess when excess is not necessary. You consume miserably and without it you are miserable. Selfishness is suffering because the self can never be satisfied. The self always craves more of the world, of which it believes is itself.

 

[SCHIZO]

What most people believe is that Buddhism eliminates suffering; but no one can eliminate suffering. What Buddhism really teaches is for you to confront suffering and live with it. There is no monk who is not affected by suffering or can't recognize it. There is no state of mind that erases it from experience. There is no hand when put to the flame does not get burned. There is no one who does not feel pain. There is only the discipline to dwell with it.

 

[Me Myself]

I do disagree.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Would you find it 'good' that you give a homicidal criminal a piece of bread if they are starving?

Potentially.

 

[Nooj]

I do disagree.

I bet you that he felt pain.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It's not wrong. It is undesirable.

So is acne...but...oh well.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It's also not 'suffering' based on common english usage, it's dukkha.

It sounds like what the Bible would term a vexation of the spirit.

 

[ratikala]

I'm interested in Buddha's wise intake on how to avoid suffering and what causes it, and I can in general agree that attachment causes suffering, or can, but I don't agree that selfishness and overindulging causes suffering.

You can avoid attachment while being overindulgent.


Thoughts?

so you are saying that you can be selfish and overindulgent without experiencing any suffering , simply by not attatching to the effect of your actions ?????

so when one has indulged in a little too much to drink , and one gets a headache , the suffering of the headache will be removed by simply not attatching to it ???

 

[The Sum of Awe]

so you are saying that you can be selfish and overindulgent without experiencing any suffering , simply by not attatching to the effect of your actions ?????

so when one has indulged in a little too much to drink , and one gets a headache , the suffering of the headache will be removed by simply not attatching to it ???

Headaches aren't too big of a deal, just not fun to have.

We all suffer a little bit in our lives, no matter what we do, and why not suffer from having a blast?

 

[ratikala]

Not if you are willing to let things go, but you can do that while overindulging.

Overindulgence is simply getting what you want when you want it all of the time.

yes you can get what you want for a limited time , but sooner or later the suffering will catch up with you ,