Buddha talked of purification of self

[atanu]

I don't see why. Will still exists within determinism. Karma is based in cause and effect, which is also deterministic.

How does the self rid the self of the self? I also do not see why materialism has anything to do with it. Lack of free will exists no matter how many base substances you ascribe to.

It means lack of free will isn't a view of mine. It is knowledge, just as mathematics is.

That is what I was saying that determinism was a view of yours and not of Buddha or of Buddhism.

Buddhism and the God-idea

In Buddhist literature, the belief in a creator god (issara-nimmana-vada) is frequently mentioned and rejected, along with other causes wrongly adduced to explain the origin of the world; as, for instance, world-soul, time, nature, etc. God-belief, however, is placed in the same category as those morally destructive wrong views which deny the kammic results of action, assume a fortuitous origin of man and nature, or teach absolute determinism. These views are said to be altogether pernicious, having definite bad results due to their effect on ethical conduct.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

That is what I was saying that determinism was a view of yours and not of Buddha or of Buddhism.

Buddhism and the God-idea

Perhaps I should stop playing into the use of the term "determinism". Quantum indeterminacy produces a form of "adequate determinism", in which the probabilities of various events equal out at the conscious level. The universe is not deterministic, but for the sake of most events, including mental activity, it might as well be.

That being said, regardless of whether the universe is probabilistic, deterministic, or wholly random has no effect on the lack of free will or "agency".

 

[atanu]

Perhaps I should stop playing into the use of the term "determinism". Quantum indeterminacy produces a form of "adequate determinism", in which the probabilities of various events equal out at the conscious level. The universe is not deterministic, but for the sake of most events, including mental activity, it might as well be.

That being said, regardless of whether the universe is probabilistic, deterministic, or wholly random has no effect on the lack of free will or "agency".

Though you appear to be averse to Hindu concepts, I suggest you read the following:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/133554-confusion-free-will-fate.html

That the world is karma is held by both Hindus and Buddhists.

 

[atanu]

That being said, regardless of whether the universe is probabilistic, deterministic, or wholly random has no effect on the lack of free will or "agency".

Then the kamma thing is useless. No?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"No doer is there who does the deed;
Nor is there one who feels the fruit;
Constituent parts alone roll on;
This indeed! Is right discernment."[/FONT]

Buddhism in Translations - § 48. Reflections on Existence.

 

[atanu]

Buddhism in Translations - § 48. Reflections on Existence.

Hey Gjallarhorn

I know that. But to the thirsty in dream, the thirst is very real. Kamma has no meaning in the Nibbana state. And Nibbana is mere talk in our dream state.

 

[paarsurrey]

If you do not doubt, you have no need to experiment, as you are certain things are as you believe them to be.

For confirmation also.