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BTW, The Beatles were more popular than Jesus, and still are

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I like the Pink Floyd now, same as 40 years ago. I think there is a quality of timelessness in Pink Floyd creations.

It sure is. But it's "timeless" to that generation - and maybe the next couple of generations
impacted by the culture. After that it becomes like stuff you hear out of the 1920's. And is
soon forgotten.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Lennon wasn't gloating or bragging; more like lamenting the fact that a band was more respected and popular than a religious leader.

He did make a more critical assessment of religion after the band broke up, on his and Yoko's Plastic Ono album:

I don't recall anyone burning any albums for this cynical lament.

Isn't it amazing how fickle the media and our culture is?
No logic, no balance, no truth.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
There's no logic to how people behave. An example was the last UK election. Many
formerly Labour supporters were unsettled that the new Labour party had an aversion
to patriotism, love of monarchy, respect of tradition etc..
You can still take an interest and respect in other cultures - but your love of cultures
must begin with your own.

And this new Labour sympathized with groups and nations that hated what the UK
stood for.
The hate in this case was from the new Labour, not the old traditionalists that put
their nation first.

No 'must' about it, especially where one is essentially at odds with much of what appears to be most popular - like the predominant popular right-wing press, the attitudes to what is seen as normal (football as being essential, mushy pop music. getting drunk, etc.), and where the left made a grab for power due to one person's mistake (allowing Corbyn to be proposed initially). The left misjudged the popularity of their position, their leader, and some of the policies. Someone more astute and a better leader might have made a better job of it, but he or she would still have been fighting the general right-wing bias of most Brits in my view, and as pointed out by you, he had baggage and was not willing to ditch it.

But then I've never exactly felt at one with our culture - perhaps because all having reasonable brains just don't tend to, wherever they live, and perhaps because they attempt to be more honest with what they appraise.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
No 'must' about it, especially where one is essentially at odds with much of what appears to be most popular - like the predominant popular right-wing press, the attitudes to what is seen as normal (football as being essential, mushy pop music. getting drunk, etc.), and where the left made a grab for power due to one person's mistake (allowing Corbyn to be proposed initially). The left misjudged the popularity of their position, their leader, and some of the policies. Someone more astute and a better leader might have made a better job of it, but he or she would still have been fighting the general right-wing bias of most Brits in my view, and as pointed out by you, he had baggage and was not willing to ditch it.

But then I've never exactly felt at one with our culture - perhaps because all having reasonable brains just don't tend to, wherever they live, and perhaps because they attempt to be more honest with what they appraise.

English culture would be the entire gamut from football to opera.
I don't like that word "right wing" in describing culture - try "mainstream."
One good way to think about your culture is to imagine you had lost it.
And then imagine, say, Pakistani culture became mainstream. It's not
"racist" to say you wouldn't like it - to us of the Western tradition this
culture is abominable - but to Pakistanis is perfectly normal.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Much like Jesus.

Well, there's not many doing Jitterbug these days, but
lots still go to church. Secular people die out and religious
folk keep popping out babies (think Mormons, Amish and
Muslims) I think Jesus will keep going long after rap is just
an embarrassing memory.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
English culture would be the entire gamut from football to opera.
I don't like that word "right wing" in describing culture - try "mainstream."
One good way to think about your culture is to imagine you had lost it.
And then imagine, say, Pakistani culture became mainstream. It's not
"racist" to say you wouldn't like it - to us of the Western tradition this
culture is abominable - but to Pakistanis is perfectly normal.

More definitely right-wing at the moment, as in many other countries, than mainstream - hence Brexit. And no doubt I would be rather displeased if we were to be taken over by an alien culture - and it is happening in many towns and cities unfortunately (the niqabs and burqas). We used to have a more cohesive society according to my memories, and less frictions, so perhaps a few planning mistakes (or lack of planning) have contributed to our change? No issues with immigration at all mainly, but rather the lack of integration and the divisions that often accompany such.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
More definitely right-wing at the moment, as in many other countries, than mainstream - hence Brexit. And no doubt I would be rather displeased if we were to be taken over by an alien culture - and it is happening in many towns and cities unfortunately (the niqabs and burqas). We used to have a more cohesive society according to my memories, and less frictions, so perhaps a few planning mistakes (or lack of planning) have contributed to our change? No issues with immigration at all mainly, but rather the lack of integration and the divisions that often accompany such.

Agreed. When you think everyone who disagrees is "right wing" then by definition
you are as far Left as you can get. And that's not good. Decent government is
moderate government. I wonder if Labour will ever get that point again - it's astonishing
that so many Labour supporters REVILE THEIR OWN BLAIR GOVERNMENT.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Anyone still in denial?

Is popularity a moral good?

Also, since he was crucified, I think that I can tell you that Jesus actually wasn't that "popular" anyway. But more than his popularity , is the difference he made in the Earth. Go and do what you feel will make a difference in this world. I won't necessarily agree with it, but whatever it is will be a sight better than what the Beatles did for the world. Which is nothing. They were narcissists preaching "all you need is love." While they beat their girlfriends and terrorized their manager.

Love is Not Enough
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Is popularity a moral good?

Also, since he was crucified, I think that I can tell you that Jesus actually wasn't that "popular" anyway. But more than his popularity , is the difference he made in the Earth. Go and do what you feel will make a difference in this world. I won't necessarily agree with it, but whatever it is will be a sight better than what the Beatles did for the world. Which is nothing. They were narcissists preaching "all you need is love." While they beat their girlfriends and terrorized their manager.

Love is Not Enough

I'm not sure 'they' is justified. Lennon might have, according to some reports. And they no doubt contributed a lot of music pleasure to many otherwise they would not still be popular - relative to all those around then.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I don't follow the Beatles closely enough to report on all of them. But I do know that their followers (by in large, conservatives don't listen to the Beatles as much) like to set up meetings on climate change or social justice, while ignoring the shopkeeper next door. Don't believe me? Let's look at how at the same time as this post got featured, another one telling business owners they need to feel guilty for their wealth.

As a business owner, you are taxed out of existence, thanks to government regulations. (The average employee in my state gets a tax threshold of $15k to pay taxes without the poverty refund thing. For self-employed? Try $400 of gross income. Then they get taxed twice, as an employee and employer). Why did that law get set up? Because liberals want bigger government that does more, damn all the costs, so the costs hit little ppl who happen to own shops or houses. Our supermarket (local, not a chain) is closing soon, after giving the community fresh local food even since I was a child.

All of the Beatles might not be hypocrites, but readthe selected link. It's about "love" that doesn't really work. How often do you see liberals talk about charity programs that literally operate at a loss, eventually needing taxpayers to bail them out? Or their businesses, for that matter (see also, Detroit)? How often do they talk about "love" only when it comes to their apparent allies (btw, I am transfeminine, and because I don't worship at the altar of the Beatles or cheap "love" they hate me too), yet throw stuff at their opponents. I have never thrown anything at anyone btw, so no this is not justified.

Rap Sheet: ***639*** Acts of Media-Approved Violence and Harassment Against Trump Supporters

But the point isn't political viewpoint, it's the idea that "love" means, well never having to say you're sorry. That acts of charity can be unsustainable, or can involve poverty of others, but one never doubts feelings of virtue.
 
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Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I don't follow the Beatles closely enough to report on all of them. But I do know that their followers (by in large, conservatives don't listen to the Beatles as much) like to set up meetings on climate change or social justice, while ignoring the shopkeeper next door. Don't believe me? Let's look at how at the same time as this post got featured, another one telling business owners they need to feel guilty for their wealth.

As a business owner, you are taxed out of existence, thanks to government regulations. (The average employee in my state gets a tax threshold of $15k to pay taxes without the poverty refund thing. For self-employed? Try $400 of gross income. Then they get taxed twice, as an employee and employer). Why did that law get set up? Because liberals want bigger government that does more, damn all the costs, so the costs hit little ppl who happen to own shops or houses. Our supermarket (local, not a chain) is closing soon, after giving the community fresh local food even since I was a child.

All of the Beatles might not be hypocrites, but readthe selected link. It's about "love" that doesn't really work. How often do you see liberals talk about charity programs that literally operate at a loss, eventually needing taxpayers to bail them out? Or their businesses, for that matter (see also, Detroit)? How often do they talk about "love" only when it comes to their apparent allies (btw, I am transfeminine, and because I don't worship at the altar of the Beatles or cheap "love" they hate me too), yet throw stuff at their opponents. I have never thrown anything at anyone btw, so no this is not justified.

Rap Sheet: ***639*** Acts of Media-Approved Violence and Harassment Against Trump Supporters

But the point isn't political viewpoint, it's the idea that "love" means, well never having to say you're sorry. That acts of charity can be unsustainable, or can involve poverty of others, but one never doubts feelings of virtue.

I think many are more concerned about the rise of so many billionaires rather than the average businessman, and the power they wield, unaccountable as it usually is. Plenty of musicians have their say once they get famous so the Beatles were hardly unique, and the four of them varied quite a bit anyway.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
A few minutes ago Doug and I were fighting, seriously.
About stuff that is absolutely none of your business.

Then he was smart enough to put Simon and Garfunkel's concert in Central Park on the TV.
"Bridge over Troubled Waters".

I stopped caring about whatever it was we were fighting about. Sometimes art works.
Tom
 
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