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British Values

Discussion in 'European Politics' started by Notanumber, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    I think making national values part of a school curriculum is a marginally good idea provided that:

    1) National values are not confused for the values of nationalism -- nationalism has all but no place in the world today outside of a nut house.

    2) National values are not made the core of the curriculum. You do that, and you're going to get run off the road by the nations that make mathematics and the sciences the core of their curricula.

    3) National values that are contradicted by the sciences, that contradict humane values, or that are unskillful or foolish, are not taught. ​

    The argument for having national values play a role in the curriculum is more or less that they represent the hard won folk wisdom of the people. There may be some truth to that, but I personally think it would be much wiser to teach humane values than national values.
     
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  3. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    British values used to be the yardstick of freedom until all this PC malarkey started to creep into our society.
     
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  4. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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  5. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    "the principles that 'make us a beacon of liberalism, tolerance and fairness to the rest of the world'." and “Usually alternatives that they perceive as fitting better with very conservative cultural or religious values." Leads me to believe that this is a western secularism vs. religious fundamentalism issue. Of course, the side that values science, freedom, and equality is the superior course by which to lead and teach by.
     
  6. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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  7. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    What the hell are 'British Values'?

    The article says, "But she instead spoke of giving young people a “real civic education”, including “a rich and deep curriculum in subjects such as history, English and geography”.

    I learnt all of those at school, so did my son and daughter and so is my grandson. We all studied Shakespeare, the geography of the UK (and other countries), I did the Industrial Revolution for 'O' Level, my kids similarly studied English history.
    What is a "Real civic education"?

    What planet are these people on. They then go on about unregistered schools, which of course are illegal already.

    A poor xenophobic article, typical of the UK gutter press.
     
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  8. Rival

    Rival Mondasian
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    There was a poster up at college with the British Values on it but all I can remember are 'democracy' and 'equality'. I turned my nose up at the democracy bit.
     
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  9. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    It is amazing when some people read something that they don’t like; they tend to blame the messenger.
     
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  10. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    You mean the Daily Mail for publishing such rubbish?
     
  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    That kind of proves my point. What that guy did is already illegal, hence his conviction, and already prohibited in actual schools (which this case wasn't even about).

    None of this says anything about what is actually meant by "British values" or what changes are being proposed for the school curriculum as implied in the speech.
     
  12. PureX

    PureX Well-Known Member

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    By the rest of the world's experience over the last several hundred years, the "national value" of Great Britain has clearly been greed. And from what I can see from a distance, it still very much is. And has, in fac,t becoming even more-so in recent decades.

    And as I live in the U.S., I have a very clear first-person view of what greed as a national agenda and an "ideological value" looks like.
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Unbeling Baconist
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    "Democracy" is a complicated thing, ineptly implemented by self serving politicians & disinterested voters.
    Once we accept this low standard, it looks pretty good...especially compared with alternatives.
     
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  14. Rival

    Rival Mondasian
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    The government, sure, the average person, no. We are talking about values that common people have in this country. We tend to value respect, privacy, equality, tolerance etc.
     
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  15. PureX

    PureX Well-Known Member

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    And then you go to the polls and vote for liars, criminals, and toadies for the wealthy elite because why, exactly? Keep in mind that your government is a reflection of your people. Just as it is here in the U.S., and look at the greedy, selfish, criminal moron that WE appointed leader! I think the ship of a reasonable, moral, populace has sailed for both our countries.
     
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  16. Rival

    Rival Mondasian
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    Because our voting system is awkward and none of the parties are particularly preferable. The current Tory government lost more seats than they gained, yet they still retain power.

    But our government gives people religious freedom, gender equality, protection for asylum seekers, welfare, and so on. That's a damn sight better than a lot of places, and these are what represent British values.
     
  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Unbeling Baconist
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    Contrast your government with what's typical in majority Muslim countries.
    England starts to look pretty good.
    And your engine museums are far far better!
    Anson Engine Museum
    Here is a rare & exciting one

    In Americastan, I know of only 2...one at The Ford Museum, & the other at the Smithsonian.

    And unlike some countries, you aren't destroying your significant historical artifacts.
     
    #17 Revoltingest, Sep 23, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
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  18. Rival

    Rival Mondasian
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    Exactly, and it's those Muslim countries that British Values are being seen in contrast to.
     
  19. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    I guess it is statements like these that the head of Ofsted is concerned about - "We have petitions outside schools objecting to teachers teaching against homophobia. We have death threats on Facebook, for example, towards me 'or any headteacher who teaches my children it's all right to be gay will be at the end of my shotgun'."

    A headteacher has told how she had received death threats for speaking out against homophobia as part of a new campaign of intimidation in the wake of the Birmingham Trojan Horse affair.

    Delegates at the National Association of Head Teachers' conference in Liverpool were told hard-line extremists were now conducting a campaign of intimidation outside schools - rather than through governing bodies.

    In addition to the death threats, at least three schools were faced with dead animals being placed in their playgrounds.

    Headteachers claimed the Government had not taken sufficient action to ensure that governors identified as a result of the Trojan Horse affairs faced investigation or permanent disbarment from holding office if found to be acting improperly. In particular, they wanted ministers to set up a database with details of governors who should not be allowed to hold office on it once they had been disbarred.

    Headteachers said that around 100 teachers had been suspended and were being investigated as a result of evidence given to the Trojan Horse inquiry carried out by Peter Clarke, former head of the Metropolitan Police' anti-terrorism branch, at the behest of former Education Secretary Michael Gove - but no governors. Several had resigned as a result of the investigation into the affair.

    Trojan Horse: Headteacher received death threats for speaking out against homophobia

    I hope Ms Spielman doesn’t get shouted down and called a racist - Schools must teach British values, says head of Ofsted

    The inspector told the court that from Year 5, girls and boys were segregated for all lessons, break and lunchtimes, as well as for school clubs and trips. They said a number of pupils had said gender segregation was “having a negative effect on being prepared for life in modern Britain… having a negative impact in terms of preparing them for life”. The inspector told the court: “One young woman referred to it as ‘dumb’.”

    Helen Mountfield, QC for Ofsted, said: “Both girls and boys suffer the loss of opportunity to learn how to socialise and in due course work with those of the opposite sex [which carries] a necessary implication that girls are inferior to boys".

    Muslim school takes legal action against Ofsted over gender segregation criticism
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Unbeling Baconist
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