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Brexit in a nutshell

Discussion in 'European Politics' started by TagliatelliMonster, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    It's interesting this "people's vote",the party without intention of having one is ahead in the polls so if there were a general election which I believe there will be and as forcast Boris Johnson's party gets a majority that's pretty much a people's vote.
     
  2. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    If the polls are correct, the last I heard the Tories were on 32% - 16 points less than the Remain vote. If that's a majority and a People's Vote - "Beam me up, Scotty"
    Political trackers (9-10 Sept update) | YouGov

    There is little chance of any party being able to form a Government on their own after a future election
     
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  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I have no idea of what you mean, since there is no obvious correspondence between your blanks and known entities.
     
  4. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    There's not much choice out there let's face it,the liberals have thrown democracy out of the window,I tonic for a party with "Democratic" in they're title,Labour,lol possibly the worst labour party I've ever known or the brexit party who I think will draw votes so my tip is the Tories riding on the back of democracy spin,gotta love our politics not.
     
  5. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Scale mostly, increase size and complexity of any 'project' it becomes exponentially more difficult to manage (see Euro v national currencies for example). Diseconomy of scale, muddled compromises based on horse trading, unintended consequences increase and effects become less predictable, inadequacies of leadership and decision-making magnified, etc.

    Reduction of diversity makes systems fragile as the scale of errors is magnified and 'firebreaks' are removed.

    Reduction of diversity reduces the potential to find better solutions as fewer options are tried.

    Lack of Europe wide public sphere means lack of democratic accountability with different countries living in significantly different political realities.

    Centralising power incentivises lobbyists/special interest groups to influence legislation.

    Nationalism will likely increase as countries perceive they are getting a raw deal while others are getting favourable treatment, or countries feel their values are being subordinated to the values of others.

    Power will be moved much further from the people and political leaders will be increasingly detached from those they are supposed to represent and the consequences of their decisions.

    Top down attempts to remake (large parts of) the world don't have a great track record of succeeding and more often make things worse.

    Erosion of different cultures makes the world a duller place (and a successful US of E would require this)

    I could go on...

    What do you think the advantages are?
     
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  6. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Paddy Ashdown must be turning in his grave at what the Lib Dems have become.

     
  7. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    They must be frightening the Alt-Right, otherwise they'd ignore them.

    Good to know.
     
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  8. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    It is hardly "democratic" to betray their own responsibilities as MPs, which include considering what they consider to be better for their constituencies and for the UK.

    Labour is indeed in a confused situation. I wish Jeremy Corbyn stopped being so ambiguous and accepted already that he ought to campaign for Remain by way of the People's Vote referendum.

    The Brexit party is obscene. No one should give an ear to Nigel Farage.

    The Tories are dying, even I can see that. They are harming the UK enormously by keeping their grab in political power at this late time.
     
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  9. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    The Left is all about fear and control.
     
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  10. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    The Left like to silence the opposition whereas the Right are content to allow the Left to keep digging their hole.

    The Right believes everyone should be given an ear.

    How can the Tories be accused of keeping their grab in political power when they keep requesting a General Election?

    Can you name any dictators past or present that want General Elections?
     
  11. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    More like the right welcomes smear, lies and denial.

    Which world are you living at? There are two windows of opportunity when they did in the last three and a half years. The most recent one is just shameful.

    Actually, I can. That is a trademark of several, including Stroessner.
     
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  12. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Right welcomes discourse in favour of the Lefts use of their de-platforming techniques.

    How can offering the people a free vote over who should rule them be called shameful?

    How can you possibly compare the UK with a South American republic and expect to be taken seriously?
     
  13. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    The Lib Dems have proved themselves to be as mad as a barrel of frogs.

    Chuka is putting a brave face on it but he must be thinking that he has jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.

    He is their political prisoner because he would lose all credibility if he jumped ship again. How many parties has he been a member of recently?

    Even the leader of the communist Green Party has called the Lib Dems undemocratic.
     
  14. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    And the Tory Party is sane!!
    The Brexit Party is sane !!!!

    Labour is sane?!!

    It is called politics, they are all unhinged, some, (I'm looking at Johnson and Farage in particular) are more unhinged than others
     
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  15. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    So far, Johnson and Farage in particular, are not trying to throw democracy under the bus.

    If only you could say the same about Swinson and Chuka.
     
  16. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    One question
    When Juncker spoke about the leaders of other planets,
    A) he was drunk
    B) he is a retard
    C) he was joking
     
  17. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    What planet are you living on?

    Bois the Liar, who was elected by an unrepresentative 0.2% of the electorate, has shut down the properly elected Parliament to avoid scrutiny of his position to potentially force through a no-deal, for which he has no mandate (as even Gove previously admitted).

    I have my doubts about the LibDems decision but if they were to win a majority (not likely but who can tell?), that would give them a mandate to carry out their manifesto pledges. That's flawed (because of FPtP) but it's a hell of a lot more democratic than what Boris the Liar is doing.
     
  18. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Suspending Parliament is democratic????
    Lying about leaving EU benefits is democratic?
    Cheating in the election is democratic?

    You live in a fantasy world.
     
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  19. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Optimistic. Reminds me of how confident the Brexiteers were concerning how "easy" they would leave the EU.
     
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  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    That would be one of those vague and abstract buzzwords.

    How would "democracy" be a problem in a "united states of europe"?
     
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