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Brexit in a nutshell

Discussion in 'European Politics' started by TagliatelliMonster, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I am serious. I want the ECB Seigniorage to be undone.
    This matter is very very, very serious
     
  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I am relieved he stays in Rome, then.




    "They see Putin as a Nationalist who believes in the underpinnings of the JudeoChristian WEST"

    Nothing to add.
     
  3. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to your nonsense accusations at the address of Germany.
     
  4. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    So you don't mind democracy being destabilised by criminal elements who engage in militaristic weaponsgrade psyOps to manipulate voting results, by illegal mass profiling on illegally acquired datasets while also massively raping privacy laws?
     
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  5. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    But it's true,there have been changes,from a trading block gradual changes have been made where we've had no say in any,the only way the EU is going is a federal state,this has been on british minds for years.
     
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  6. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    You have a say as long as you are members.

    Refusing to acknowledge the reality of trade with other countries might perhaps have an upside, but I certainly fail to see it.
     
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  7. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Who's "we"? Because to my knowledge, the vast majority of such decisions in the EU is done by consensus of all members.

    If you say so.

    I'm a European first and a Belgian second. That's just how I roll, so we'll have other views right out the gates.
    But I wonder: why would you consider a "united states of europe" a bad thing? And don't give me any nationalistic conceptual buzzwords filled mumbo jumbo about "patriotism" and the abstract notion of "sovereignty". I mean in a clear and practical way: what would be the problem with that?
     
  8. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Because we are different...and our diversity is our strength...But I am for preserving this diversity, by defending the single National identities.
    I speak 5 European languages, that shows how much how I love Europe.
     
    #128 Estro Felino, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    National identities are fictional as well as worthless.

    They neither need nor deserve protection.

    Word has it that Italy, as such, has always been a very artificial construct. I am willing to bet that it still is.
     
  10. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Well...from space you see a very defined boot-like peninsula. Very very natural construct.:rolleyes:;)
     
  11. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    What kind of people sprouts from its soil?
     
  12. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Belgium from border to border is like 250 km.
    I can guarantee you that the people of the coast in West-flanders are vastly different from the people in Limburg at the other side of the country.

    So different in fact that if someone from Limburg sees someone from west-flanders on TV, he won't be understanding a word he says without subtitles, while both supposedly speak dutch.

    Let's also take a trip over the ocean.
    Let's compare a typical citizen from mid texas with a typical citizen from mid california or new york.

    I think the difference between both would be just as big, if not bigger, then the difference between an average italian and an average belgian.

    Also, if our diversity is our strength.... then how is it an argument to not unite in a common entity?

    Why do you think that Italian identiy can't be preserved in a "united states of europe"?
    Would you say that there is no such thing as Texan identity as opposed to Nebraskan or Californian identity?

    And those aren't even "real countries". "real" in the sense of not having a long history and all being pretty much rather artificial, as the line-out of their borders kind of illustrate. I don't think you'll find other "countries" with borders that exist out of straight lines primarily :)

    Great.
    I speak 3.

    Still not clear what the practical downside would be of a "united states of europe".
     
  13. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Reciprocal travel agreements are very easy to conclude given both sides have incredibly strong incentives to reach a settlement and the settlement is not complex or open to much dispute like trade or customs deals may be.

    UK travellers already need to clear customs as they aren't part of Schengen so would be practically unchanged except might need to go into the non-EU queue.

    Could be sorted out in a day.
     
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  14. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    The problem is democracy plain and simple.
     
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  15. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    For me I'd like to leave with a deal,if that should happen I'm really confident we'll be fine,without one it's going to be tough for both of us, particularly for the smaller states in the EU but we were actually ok before the EU or as it was "the common market" so we can again.
     
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  16. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    If the EU allows clowns like him to rule the Commission, it means it is a sham.
    @TagliatelliMonster

     
  17. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    It is a mystery.
     
  18. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    In the abstract that sounds fine. But you should be careful about what you wish for. There seems to be a lot of mystification about what is possible in such deals and what they would entail.

    I don't think that it is just lack of luck, good will or competence that made it so difficult for such a deal to be approved this far. On the contrary, I strongly suspect that if those who voted Leave were well informed and discussed the matter among themselves they would be very much divided internally and might well settle for Remain.

    Which, I suppose, is my attempt at being nice while telling you not to be too attached to unicorn hunting.

    Word has it that your economy was actually in terrible shape, and I see every indication that it is already taking a beating anew, but I suppose that it is your skin in the game. Mine is only indirectly affected.
     
  19. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Were that the case, you should support the campaign for the People's Vote. The 2016 referendum was just too incomplete, as well as too ambiguous far as its consequences go.
     
  20. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Luis,our economy has been in bad shape since ww2,only the conservatives have made it look otherwise,boom followed by bust.
     
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