Breaking away from religious trappings?

[Jainarayan]

Like some of you I've been on a search for what my true beliefs are.

I've recently experienced a break with what I thought would be my forever religious system: Hinduism to be precise. I'm returning to what I think is a more logical way in Deism. This break occurred not because of the core beliefs of Hinduism, which I still hold to, but because of certain practices, trappings and what I consider superstitious, conflicting and contradictory nonsense (sorry to offend Hindus) promulgated by followers, writers, gurus, and pundits in books, articles and the internet. It's a simple matter of if-this-is-what-it-is-I-don't-want-to-be-associated-with-it. This is what drove me away from Christianity (I do like Jesus though ).

I do believe in God, have always believed in God, and probably always will. I don't know what God is, but Something is there. Even when I was a Roman Catholic teenager, then an Eastern Orthodox adult, then an agnostic deist, I was always drawn to the concept of the Hindu deities as representations of God, a face on the unmanifest, if you will. A verse from the Bhagavad Gita (12.4), spoken by Krishna goes "It is much more difficult to focus on God as the unmanifested than God with form, due to human beings having the need to perceive via the senses". Or maybe it's just the pretty colors of the pictures, the images, icons, murthis (idols, statues), and the symbolism of the deities as aspects of the universe and God. You can't tell me Maa Saraswati is not beautiful.

I don't pray in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense; I recite some Sanskrit verses of praise to deities (when I do this at all). I do have a shrine with statues of various deities that represent a microcosm of the various powers and facets of the universe and God, i.e. knowledge (Saraswati, Ganesha, Manjushri); light (the sun as deity Surya); good things like health, good fortune (Lakshmi); compassion, mercy, love, self-control, protection (Vishnu and his forms, Shiva and Mother Goddess) and so on. It's a matter of mindfulness also.

But I feel I am being held hostage by keeping representations that may or may not actually represent God. In blunt terms, I may dismantle the shrine and pack away these items. Now, could I have these around just as pretty works of art from a culture I find fascinating? Yes, I can do that.

On one hand I feel that external trappings are pointless, verging on superstitious. Yet on the other hand, however, I have had many good things come my way, at very dark times when I thought there was no way out, which I attributed to the intervention of one or more deities. Was it coincidence or delusion? I like the idea of, and want to believe that there are supra-mundane spiritually evolved or divine beings who help us.

So, having taken the first step in saying I cannot with a straight face call myself a Hindu, or perform or attend Hindu rituals, the next step is... how much, if any physical representation do I want to have of what I think is God? That is, will I dismantle most of the shrine? I think the answer is yes.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=Jainarayan;3533815]Like some of you I've been on a search for what my true beliefs are.

Namaste Jai Ji,

It is vary refreshing to hear that people are still seeking and trying to discover them self, it makes me feel not so alone.

I can understand exactly your view about many practices that sometime seem vary superstitious, and i have the same feeling.

I personally have never been into much rituals, but i don't consider all rituals as superstitious but more as cultural, and this is easy for me to accept maybe because many rituals are related to my culture (Indian).

As for my spiritual side, I feel I have had more progress without any rituals or elaborate prayers ect. It has freed me to consider the more philosophical side of my beliefs, and i find that self reflection arises when our attachments to worldly affairs, relations, associations to social activity and other desirable things come to a point where they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things for an individual (talking from a personal perspective here).

Although it has been most of Hinduisms teachings that has helped me realize the more subtler aspects of my amazing existence. The fact that i exist is amazing in it self, but this does not require to be learned from any religion or books or rituals but more from self reflection and is vary obvious when we remove the glitter and dust of the world we live in.

I personally will still consider myself as a Hindu, it gives me identity which i prize in this life.

I think we are all on a journey, but i am not quite sure where this will take us, life is too short to ponder on the eternal and infinite things i think.

I wish you all the best in your new mindset. May your mind and Atman be free.

OHM TATH SATH

 

[Vinayaka]

@ Jai ... I hope that for your sake you don't consider that your tryst with Hinduism was a total waste of time.

 

[Jainarayan]

It is vary refreshing to hear that people are still seeking and trying to discover them self, it makes me feel not so alone.

It is indeed, isn't it!?

I can understand exactly your view about many practices that sometime seem vary superstitious, and i have the same feeling.

I personally have never been into much rituals, but i don't consider all rituals as superstitious but more as cultural, and this is easy for me to accept maybe because many rituals are related to my culture (Indian).

This hits spot on... many rituals are cultural customs. It's easy to forget, no matter what culture one is from, that people not of that culture often find it impossible to separate cultural custom from religion, and to adopt the customs and rituals that are born of culture. For some of us that causes a conflict. In conversations I've had with some ladies at temple, their responses were "meh, we were raised with this". They stopped short of saying "we don't know why we do this or that".

I should make it clear that I don't blow off all rituals or practices either. Some of them give me a feeling of satisfaction and fulfillment (for lack of a better term). I like seeing the lights and incense smoke rising, making a connection from the mundane to the supra-mundane; I like saying certain prayers and mantras, in whatever language; I like the ringing and tinkling of bells. For some reason many religions use them... from Native Americans who wear bells in tribal rituals to Eastern Orthodox censers which have them attached. As the priest waves the censer, the bells tinkle and ring. I think certain aspects of ritual are hard-wired in us.

As for my spiritual side, I feel I have had more progress without any rituals or elaborate prayers ect. It has freed me to consider the more philosophical side of my beliefs, and i find that self reflection arises when our attachments to worldly affairs, relations, associations to social activity and other desirable things come to a point where they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things for an individual (talking from a personal perspective here).

Yes, yes! I've found that by not standing or sitting in front of my shrine, chanting japa or reciting shlokas in English or Sanskrit or Tibetan, which I find to be a distraction, and simply contemplating along the lines of Sri Ramana Maharshi's "who am I?" enquiry, I've gotten further.

Oddly enough, many science shows that are now featuring new views of cosmology assist me in answering the questions "who am I?" and "what's this all about?". Some people might find that a distraction or creating confusion, but the way my mind works, it puts the jigsaw puzzle together.

Although it has been most of Hinduisms teachings that has helped me realize the more subtler aspects of my amazing existence. The fact that i exist is amazing in it self, but this does not require to be learned from any religion or books or rituals but more from self reflection and is vary obvious when we remove the glitter and dust of the world we live in.

Yes, this is something that keeps me drawn to Hinduism and the philosophies of the east. As a youngster, my mind was a fertile ground for planting a sort of metaphysical seed. I've always been more philosophical and somewhat more mystical than others in my age and cultural category. Hinduism and the East have fit in nicely.

I personally will still consider myself as a Hindu, it gives me identity which i prize in this life.

Yes, and that's probably as it should be. I may have been a born Hindu in a past life, sparks of which are still there and draw me to Hindu philosophy. But something in subsequent births have taken me along different paths. Even in this life I've traveled many different paths and re-invented myself many times. Who knows what will be next, in this life or after?

I think we are all on a journey, but i am not quite sure where this will take us, life is too short to ponder on the eternal and infinite things i think.

I wish you all the best in your new mindset. May your mind and Atman be free.

OHM TATH SATH

Thanks.

 

[Jainarayan]

@ Jai ... I hope that for your sake you don't consider that your tryst with Hinduism was a total waste of time.

Oh Svarga no! (little play on words there ). I've learned enormous amounts about the faith and about myself. I've even changed (for the better, if you can imagine that ) because of it. And I don't see that going up in smoke. I consider it all worthwhile. If I hadn't traveled the road I did, I wouldn't be where I am, and I kind of like where I am. Trippy, huh?

What I think I'm returning to is what I came into Hinduism as... a Deist who puts a Hindu face on God. When I say I can't bring myself to call myself Hindu or attend temple anymore, it's not out of a feeling of superiority or uppityness, rather it's because I feel that the way I believe, what I believe and don't believe does a disservice to other Hindus if I bring it to temple or to the name "Hindu".

I will always have pictures and murthis of the deities; they are how I view what's in the "other world", and as far as I can tell, is how I always will. It's what speaks to me and has always spoken to me for over 40 years. Yes, as a 13-14 year old, I was drawn to the deities. Even as an Eastern Orthodox Christian I had framed 4x6" pictures of Lord Shiva, Maa Durga, Lord Hanuman, Lord Ganesha, Lord Krishna and Lord Rama in the house, on the wall. Those were my firsts (you always remember your first ). I knew enough to keep Lord Ganesha's picture by the door so he was who I saw when going out.

 

[SteveGrayFTW]

Like some of you I've been on a search for what my true beliefs are.

I've recently experienced a break with what I thought would be my forever religious system: Hinduism to be precise. I'm returning to what I think is a more logical way in Deism. This break occurred not because of the core beliefs of Hinduism, which I still hold to, but because of certain practices, trappings and what I consider superstitious, conflicting and contradictory nonsense (sorry to offend Hindus) promulgated by followers, writers, gurus, and pundits in books, articles and the internet. It's a simple matter of if-this-is-what-it-is-I-don't-want-to-be-associated-with-it. This is what drove me away from Christianity (I do like Jesus though ).

I do believe in God, have always believed in God, and probably always will. I don't know what God is, but Something is there. Even when I was a Roman Catholic teenager, then an Eastern Orthodox adult, then an agnostic deist, I was always drawn to the concept of the Hindu deities as representations of God, a face on the unmanifest, if you will. A verse from the Bhagavad Gita (12.4), spoken by Krishna goes "It is much more difficult to focus on God as the unmanifested than God with form, due to human beings having the need to perceive via the senses". Or maybe it's just the pretty colors of the pictures, the images, icons, murthis (idols, statues), and the symbolism of the deities as aspects of the universe and God. You can't tell me Maa Saraswati is not beautiful.

I don't pray in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense; I recite some Sanskrit verses of praise to deities (when I do this at all). I do have a shrine with statues of various deities that represent a microcosm of the various powers and facets of the universe and God, i.e. knowledge (Saraswati, Ganesha, Manjushri); light (the sun as deity Surya); good things like health, good fortune (Lakshmi); compassion, mercy, love, self-control, protection (Vishnu and his forms, Shiva and Mother Goddess) and so on. It's a matter of mindfulness also.

But I feel I am being held hostage by keeping representations that may or may not actually represent God. In blunt terms, I may dismantle the shrine and pack away these items. Now, could I have these around just as pretty works of art from a culture I find fascinating? Yes, I can do that.

On one hand I feel that external trappings are pointless, verging on superstitious. Yet on the other hand, however, I have had many good things come my way, at very dark times when I thought there was no way out, which I attributed to the intervention of one or more deities. Was it coincidence or delusion? I like the idea of, and want to believe that there are supra-mundane spiritually evolved or divine beings who help us.

So, having taken the first step in saying I cannot with a straight face call myself a Hindu, or perform or attend Hindu rituals, the next step is... how much, if any physical representation do I want to have of what I think is God? That is, will I dismantle most of the shrine? I think the answer is yes.

You'll have to forgive me for not knowing a whole whole lot about Hinduism, but would it be possible to approach it from a more naturalistic perspective, and keep the shrine merely as a way to honor the traditions and symbolism? If that is something you'd be interested in doing, of course.

 

[Vinayaka]

Alas. One person's trap is another person's home.

 

[Jainarayan]

...would it be possible to approach it from a more naturalistic perspective, and keep the shrine merely as a way to honor the traditions and symbolism? If that is something you'd be interested in doing, of course.

That is the direction of my thoughts. While I don't necessarily believe that corner is any more intrinsically or inherently special or energetic, I do believe that we can generate energy around and amongst ourselves.

I have deity statues and pictures all over the house, but the shrine corner is where the deities tend to congregate and hang out mainly, like we did on the corner of South Orange and West End Avenues as teenagers (I can be serious if my life depended on it ).

I use Thich Nhat Hanh's word "mindfulness". So to that end it would serve as a reminder of my spiritual journey, and a slightly more special place to connect with the other world. And while I really should pare it down and pack away some of the statues, each of them represents a particular facet of reality...

Krishna: Teacher of dharma.
Narasimha: The force of God that protects.
Rama and Sita: The epitome and paragon of selfless service and "doing the right thing".
Hanuman: The epitome of unflinching devotion.
Ganesha, Saraswati, Lakshmi: The removers of ignorance and givers of knowledge, grace, fortune and wealth (spiritual mostly, maybe some material ).
Harihara (combined form of Shiva and Vishnu): Supreme Ruler of the universe and what I picture God as.
Durga, Kali, Tara: The universal mother, protector and energy of the universe, defeater of evil.
Chenrezig/Avalokiteshvara/Guan yin: The bodhisattva of infinite compassion. And a few other deities from Buddhism and Taoism that represent forces of the universe and aspects of God.

Therein lies the name 'panendeistic polydeism' (oy vey! )... everything is in God; God transcends all; aspects of God (or separate divine entities) that control aspects and functions of the universe(s).

Trippy, huh?

 

[Jainarayan]

Alas. One person's trap is another person's home.

Not trap, you silly! Trappings... accoutrements, paraphernalia, stuff, things... doo-dads!

 

[Vinayaka]

Not trap, you silly! Trappings... accoutrements, paraphernalia, stuff, things... doo-dads!

One person's paraphernalia, stuff, things, habits, quirks, rituals, books, prizes, is another person's garbage, waste, disposables, ....

 

[Jainarayan]

True, hence garage sales.