Brahman or Self is pure consciousness...

[stvdv]

Let me add to my post:
"Tat twam asi". You (too) are that, but you have not yet realized that and are running after babas and gurus.

That is your opinion (that I am running after babas and gurus). Which is not wisdom, as you do not know me. Fortunately I know the truth.

Sai Baba has helped me so much, that I will be ever grateful to Him. I feel no need to belittle Him, nor other Gurus, do you?

At least Sai Baba has the Wisdom, being a Poorna Avatar, more than you or I can ever achieve on earth.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is blasphemy. Just like Paul made Jesus, a few Jains made Shirdi fakir into a 'purnavatara'.
Those people were later divested of authority in the Sai temple, but they made hey while the sun shined.
There have been many other frauds like that in Hinduism.
A 'purnavatara' came and did not make an iota of difference in the world. Ha-ha.
A wasted visit.

 

[Martin]

"You are the Self, the infinite Being, the pure, unchanging Consciousness, which pervades everything. Your nature is bliss and your glory is without stain. Because you identify yourself with the ego, you are tied to birth and death. Your bondage has no other cause", says Shankaracharya in the Vivekachudamani.



But how many people here got this basic fundamental straight and correct. This itself helps anyone to easily gauge the intellectual understanding of those who profess to talk about Advaita over here.

In sport, if the sportsman develop faulty technique, it helps to go back to the basics with the help of a coach. But if the coach himself has faulty knowledge, disaster awaits the sportsman in the field no matter how sincere or hardworking he is.

Do all Hindu schools believe this?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Some do, some not. For me, it is blasphemy.

 

[stvdv]

That is blasphemy. Just like Paul made Jesus, a few Jains made Shirdi fakir into a 'purnavatara'.

Thank you for your opinion. When something is true, it can't be blasphemy. I trust Sai Baba's word 1000 times more than your words
One needs to be a Poorna Avatar to recognize someone as Poorna Avatar; you can believe at best, someone to (not) be a Poorna Avatar

I could imagine that you would only believe if people start saying "@Aupmanyav was the Poorna Avatar in Kali Yuga"?

There have been many other frauds like that in Hinduism.
A 'purnavatara' came and did not make an iota of difference in the world. Ha-ha.
A wasted visit.

Again, thank you for your opinion.

You are good in belittling others, while you never "really met" Him, and for sure you never "really investigated" Him; and you call yourself a scientist ?
Feels like me, you project your suppressed aggression on Saints and Sages. If it makes you feel better ... I don't need this to feel myself good.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I could imagine that you would only believe if people start saying "@Aupmanyav was the Poorna Avatar in Kali Yuga"?
.. for sure you never "really investigated" Him; and you call yourself a scientist?
Feels like me, you project your suppressed aggression on Saints and Sages.

I am not an avatara, but I am Brahman. You too are that.
There is nothing to investigate. Had he said he was Brahman, I would have gladly accepted it.
Every thing, every one is; even Hitler and Caliph Ibrahim was Brahman.
You say that because there is no way you can prove what you say.
It is just an anti-Hindu belief that you want to propagate.

 

[stvdv]

You say that because there is no way you can prove what you say.

Neither can you prove that Sai Baba is not a Poorna avatar
At least I do not claim anything, I say "I believe in it"
While you claim that you know (for a fact ). Or you forgot to mention "IMHO"

 

[stvdv]

Srimad Bhagavatam 12.3.32: Cities will be dominated by thieves, the Vedas will be contaminated by speculative interpretations of atheists, political leaders will virtually consume the citizens, and the so-called priests and intellectuals will be devotees of their bellies and genitals.

This prophecy of the sacred scripture Srimadbhagavatham is enough caution for any sincere student of Upanishadic philosophy to be on their guard so as not to fall in the clutches of Maya and end up weak and deluded.

Very true. People belittling our faith and/or acting Adharmic only zap our energy if we allow their negativity, leaving us weak. Better to have Satsang.

 

[stvdv]

Do all Hindu schools believe this?

The part of "Pure Consciousness" is the Advaita thought. In Hinduism they also have non-Advaita and Vishishtadvaita. So in this way they have spirituality for all people. And you are free to choose the one that fits best with you. The Advaita concept is for some people a bit difficult to understand, so they have other options.

 

[Martin]

The part of "Pure Consciousness" is the Advaita thought. In Hinduism they also have non-Advaita and Vishishtadvaita. So in this way they have spirituality for all people. And you are free to choose the one that fits best with you. The Advaita concept is for some people a bit difficult to understand, so they have other options.

Or maybe some people just dont find the Advaita concept convincing? Assuming there is a consensus on what the Advaita concept actually is. Which I doubt.
Less rhetoric and more explanation is generally a good approach, in my experience.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Neither can you prove that Sai Baba is not a Poorna avatar.

Then tell me, why did he come and what did he achieve? I am not belittling anyone. Tell me, if coming of this person, and a 'purnavatara' to boot, made any difference to the world?

In India you have 'purnavatara' claimaints or their promoters (as in the case of Shirdi) in every street. Many of them later end up in jails for various crimes. Another claimant for a 'purnavatara' is Swami Sahajananda of the Swaminarayans. Part of his legacy is controlled by his progeny who were accused of sexual misconduct. Then we had Swami Nithiananda who escaped to an island in Carribean after being accused of rape. Such claimants are nothing new for us.

Yes, we have spirituality in every shade. But the avataras are mentioned in the books and the tenth, if one believes such predictions, will come at the end of this yuga, i.e., 425,000 years from now. Anyone making a claim or being promoted by charlatans before this time is a fake. But this end of Kaliyuga and the hiatus of 425,000 serves us well.

 

[stvdv]

Or maybe some people just dont find the Advaita concept convincing?

Hence I said:

So in this way they have spirituality for all people. And you are free to choose the one that fits best with you.

Less rhetoric and more explanation is generally a good approach, in my experience.

IMO: That part is solved by "Guru and Student concept", and nowadays plenty on the internet and many books, YouTubes.

 

[stvdv]

Yes, we have spirituality in every shade. But the avataras are mentioned in the books and the tenth, if one believes such predictions, will come at the end of this yuga, i.e., 425,000 years from now. Anyone making a claim or being promoted by charlatans before this time is a fake. But this end of Kaliyuga and the hiatus of 425,000 serves us well.

Yes there have been made many predictions, and still now people like to predict. And I understand that if they believe in these predictions that they see all else as fake. But still they should say "IMHO (or IMO) your guru is fake, as per the predictions I believe in" or something similar. That's because it's a belief/faith (esp. with predictions) and not an exact science.

In India you have 'purnavatara' claimaints or their promoters (as in the case of Shirdi) in every street. Many of them later end up in jails for various crimes. Another claimant for a 'purnavatara' is Swami Sahajananda of the Swaminarayans. Part of his legacy is controlled by his progeny who were accused of sexual misconduct. Then we had Swami Nithiananda who escaped to an island in Carribean after being accused of rape. Such claimants are nothing new for us.

Yes there is a lot of sexual misconduct even in spiritual places (as predicted in this verse of Srimad Bhagavatam). But there are also incidences of "falsely accused sexual misconduct", hence best to say "IMHO" or "as I believe"...Unless it is proven beyond a doubt. Same with claimants of "Poorna Avatar". Until it's scientifically proven a false claim best to use "I believe (not)".
(I have been in 1 room with a Dutch man who was totally into Sai Baba, then after reading internet negative sexual stories he became totally against Sai Baba even claiming He abused him also sexually, then 10 years afterwards He wanted to be with Sai Baba again). In the 10 years I spend in the ashram I have seen quite a few of these things happening, so I don't believe people so easily anymore. I rather stick to my own personal experiences; spending 10 full years in the Ashram)

Then tell me, why did he come and what did he achieve? I am not belittling anyone. Tell me, if coming of this person, and a 'purnavatara' to boot, made any difference to the world?

Good to know, that you don't belittle anyone. Thank you.
At least Sai Baba made a big difference to me, and I met many to whom He made a big difference. And I do not expect an Avatar to do our dirty work and "cure the whole world". Sai Baba gave many discourses explaining many things and He was a living example of helping others. Like many other Prophets and Saints before Him. Now again, it's up to us to solve the problems we created ourselves.

And Sai Baba explicitly said that you can be Spiritual when you are an Atheist, so no need to proselytize/evangelize Atheists, Humanists, other (non) Religious people. Even more, Sai Baba said "encourage others to continue in their chosen (non)Faith, and do not evangelize, because thereby you belittle their (non) Faith". So, for me there is no need at all to convince others how good Sai Baba was. I am fine if they believe or if they do not believe. Just do not belittle my chosen Faith/Guru, that's all I ask (and it's even a rule on RF). If you find verses from Sai Baba you believe are wrong, you can tell me, that's fine. Just do not belittle.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes there have been made many predictions, and still now people like to predict.

I have been in 1 room with a Dutch man who was totally into Sai Baba, then after reading internet negative sexual stories he became totally against Sai Baba even claiming He abused him also sexually, then 10 years afterwards He wanted to be with Sai Baba again.

And I do not expect an Avatar to do our dirty work and "cure the whole world". Sai Baba gave many discourses explaining many things and He was a living example of helping others. Like many other Prophets and Saints before Him. Now again, it's up to us to solve the problems we created ourselves.

Even more, Sai Baba said "encourage others to continue in their chosen (non)Faith, and do not evangelize, because thereby you belittle their (non) Faith".

Why should I deviate from my books and what Hindus have always believed; and believe what some new, biased, selfish and foolish interpretations charlatans give?

That a person wanted to be back with a baba is not a reason that I should believe in that baba. I do not know all the motivations of that person. Probably he liked to be fondled. Which baba are you talking about, the Puttaparthy one or the Shirdi one or some other baba? Yes, the Puttaparthy baba for all his reported faults did do something good. But when he died, the world came to know of his accumulated gold and jewels in his store and world currencies hidden in his bed. He died stinking rich and all that money went to his nephew, courtesy, the government of his time.

"On 17 June 2011, officials from the Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust opened his private residence in the presence of government, bank and tax department officials. In the private residence, which had been sealed since his death, they inventoried 98 kg of gold ornaments, approximate value Rs 21 crores (US$4.7m), 307 kg of silver ornaments, approximate value Rs 16 million (US$0.36m), and Rs 116 million (US$2.6m) in cash.
Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia

Why would an avatara leave his work unfinished? His coming did not make any appreciable difference in poverty, education or health of the people of even his state, Andhra Pradesh, what to talk of India or the world. Helping people, improving their condition is 'dirty work'? What are you talking? How far the discourses help? As we say in India, "Par upadesh kushal bahutere" (Many people are smart to advise others). Avataras in Hinduism do the 'dirty work' themselves. Rama kills Ravana and Krishna kills Shishupala and Dantavakra. What are avataras good for if they cannot do the 'dirty work'.

Much before Sai, Krishna had said that in Gita. Are your sais are nothing more than parrots?

 

[stvdv]

Why should I deviate from my books and what Hindus have always believed; and believe what some new, biased, selfish and foolish interpretations charlatans give?

Your interpretation mean nothing to me

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why should I deviate from my books and what Hindus have always believed; and believe what some new, biased, selfish and foolish interpretations charlatans give?

I missed the part of this thread where someone asked you to. Can you please quote that post so I don't have to go back through every post?

 

[atanu]

I am not an avatara, but I am Brahman. You too are that.
There is nothing to investigate. Had he said he was Brahman, I would have gladly accepted it.
Every thing, every one is; even Hitler and Caliph Ibrahim was Brahman.
You say that because there is no way you can prove what you say.
It is just an anti-Hindu belief that you want to propagate.

Hitler, propelled by his desire to rule the world, is Brahman?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I missed the part of this thread where someone asked you to. Can you please quote that post so I don't have to go back through every post?

I too will not go through the topic posts again, but every one knows that the tenth avatara, Kalki, as mentioned in the Hindu scriptures is to come at the end of Kaliyuga and that Kaliyuga will last till 426,878 years from now. The duration of Kaliyuga in any manvantara (group of four yugas) is mentioned as 432,000 years, out of which some 5,122 years (3102 years before Jesus and 2020 years after him) have gone by with the conclusion of Krishna avatara. It will be easy to give months, dates and time for appearance of Kalki avatara, but I would not attempt that at the moment.

According to Puranic sources, Krishna's departure marks the end of Dvapara Yuga and the start of Kali Yuga, which is dated to 17/18 February 3102 BCE. Based on a starting year of 3102 BCE and a duration of 432,000 years (1200 divine years), Kali Yuga began roughly 5,121 years ago and has 426,879 years remaining as of 2020 CE. Kali Yuga will end in the year 428,899 CE.
Kali Yuga - Wikipedia

Of course, Krishna in my view is Brahman, no birth or death for him as it is for me too, since I too am Brahman (So Aham, commonly written as So'ham). It is funny that these babas and their followers claim that they are avataras and purnavataras, everyone is that. So what is special with them?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hitler, propelled by his desire to rule the world, is Brahman?

Yeah, even Hitler or Caliph Ibrahim or Pol Pot. Even Hiranyaksha or Ravana, since nothing other than Brahman exists. That is "Advaita".
"Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti" (What exists is one, there is no second).
You take what seems to happen in the world as real? You are not an 'advaitist'. Kabir said, "Maya bari thagini hum jaani".

 

[SalixIncendium]

It is funny that these babas and their followers claim that they are avataras and purnavataras, everyone is that. So what is special with them?

What is special about them is that there are those who find them relevant to their spiritual path. Who are you or I to dictate otherwise?

It’s wise to remember that there are others that don’t walk the same path you do. To claim yours is more correct or true than that of another is not only arrogant, but goes against what I understand to be Hindus’ tolerance of others.

Don’t attempt to assume the role of guru for others. Be your own guru.