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Featured Brahman or God

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    how can you know brahman or god, if you can't experience it first person?

    by someone telling you? if so, then how can they know brahman, or god, if they didn't experience it first person?
     
  2. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Putting it simply, without first "person" experience, one cannot.

    Check local listings.
     
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  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    I think people do experience it first person. It's called "life".

    I don't know if people can actually know God completely. But I think most people know some aspects of God very well.
     
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  4. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    You know if a Teacher is for real, if The Teacher can grant you the Experience
     
  5. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Since there is no experiencing without it you can’t miss.
     
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  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    but then why do some see it as an event separate from self, or without self involvement?
     
  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    yet there are many who see it god, brahman, as separate, apart, outside involvement and excluding self.
     
  8. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    The only way to "know" Brahman is to become Brahman. One can, however, begin to get a mental or mathematical picture of the phenomenon from theoretical physics -- string theories and such.

    God? God's whatever you make Him/Her/It/Them. There are millions of different god concepts; you can pick and choose.
     
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  9. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Because they are engaging in philosophy and speculation.
     
  10. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    I'm playing with an idea these days...that everything we learn is merely a slight alteration of something we already know. So when we put a name to an experience the experience was already there but now the name has subtly changed it.
     
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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  12. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu pagan and a strong atheist.
    Brahman is not God. Brahman is the stuff (or whatever) which constitutes all things in the universe. God is human imagination.
    You do not need to become Brahman. You are already It. :)
    It needs to be realized (we generally have too much garbage in our minds which does not let us realize it). All things in the universe are but Brahman and none else 'Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma' (All things here are Brahman) since nothing else exists - 'Eko sad, Dwiteeyo nasti' (What exists is one, there is no second).
    That is what Chandogya Upanishad said some 2,000 years ago (father to son):

    "Yathā Saumya, ekena mrit-pindena sarvam mrinmayam vijnātam, syāt, vācārambhanam vikāro nāma-dheyam, mirttikā iti eva satyam.

    "Son, as by knowing one clod of clay, all things made of clay are known, different names in speech are but distortions in naming, clay is alone the truth"
     
    #12 Aupmanyav, Jul 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
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  13. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Brahman is our core, We experience it more through stilling the noisy mind, The masters and Brahman-Realized adepts can tell us something about Brahman. Brahman has best been described in language as pure undifferentiated sat-cit-Ananda (being-awareness-bliss).
     
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  14. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    This is well stated. :)

    There is a saying in the ancient Mundaka Upanishad.

    Brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati -- 'The knower of Brahman becomes Brahman'. (Mundaka Upanishad 3.2.9)


    This is also similar to Jesus' saying....

    I and the Father are one. John 10:30


    It is probably from his enlightened perspective or intrinsic knowledge of God that Jesus stated that he and God are one, or that he was the son of God.

    Also similar to the sufi enlightened master Mansur Al Hallaj's saying : "I am the Truth" (Ana 'l-Ḥaqq)

    Ironically and tragically, both Jesus and Mansur were tortured and executed by conservative fundamentalists who were not able to comprehend or grasp their message of nondual perception, due to their conditioned mindsets.
     
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  15. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Yes, and there is nothing wrong with this. Most folks don't need ( or want ) to climb Mt. Everest. Some people might even ignore Mt. Everest all-together.
     
  16. Whippet

    Whippet Active Member

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    Interesting - like recognising something? It seems quite subjective though, difficult to know what the something really is.
     
    #16 Whippet, Jul 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  17. Whippet

    Whippet Active Member

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    I agree about the importance of stillness, and the sense of connection with something deeper (larger?). Though the language here is inevitably imprecise, more of a suggestion than a definition.
     
    #17 Whippet, Jul 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    What I am trying to figure out is: What is threatening about this non-dual message. Why torture? Why execution?
     
  19. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    The fundamentalists and conservatives found it blasphemous and outrageous that they were 'daring' to equate themselves with God, Truth and divinity.
     
  20. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Yes, that's a reason, but it doesn't seem like "the" reason. Do you know what I mean?

    What is threatening about outrageous blasphemy? I wonder if there was a political motivation? The conservative fundamentalists were the ruling elite? The non-dual message threatened their political power?

    It seems obvious that this is true for Jesus ( whether or not he is/was an enlightened master ). Could it have been true for Mansur?
     
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