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Brahma (God), meaning and origin (ethmology) on word.

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Samana Johann, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Samana Johann

    Samana Johann Restricted by request

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    Since it had another time leaded to much off-topic, my person thought of creating it an own realm.

    As for a simple explaining, peprived from Pali, Vedic, the word comes from Brah, "a stand", so someone having a "real" stand, status, a Lord, a "real" being.

    here some from the Pali society Dictionary

    I. Brahman (nt.) [cp. Vedic bráhman nt. prayer; nom. sg. bráhma] 1. the supreme good; as a buddhistic term used in a sense different from the brahmanic (save in controversy with Brahmans); a state like that of Brahmā (or Brahman) A ii.184 (brahmappatta). In cpds. brahma˚. -- 2. Vedic text, mystic formula, prayer DA i.244 (brahmaŋ aṇatī ti brāhmaṇo).

    II. Brahmā [cp. Vedic brahmán, m., one who prays or chants hymns, nom. sg. Brahmā] 1. the god Brahmā chief of the gods, often represented as the creator of the Universe (vasavattī issaro kattā nimmātā) D i.18; iii.30, also called Mahābrahmā (D i.235 sq., 244 sq.; iii.30; It 15; Vism 578; DhA ii.60); and Sahampati (Vin i.5; D ii.157; S i.136 sq.; Vism 201; KhA 171; SnA 56) and Sanaŋkumāra(D ii.226; iii.97). The duration of his life is given as being 1 kalpa (see Kvu 207, 208). -- nom. Brahmā Vin i.5; D ii.46; J vi.486; Miln 224; Vism 2 (brahmānaŋ atibrahmā, Ep. of Buddha Bhagavā); SnA 229 (B. mahānubhāvo); gen. abl. Brahmano D ii.209; Vism 205; SnA 177; instr. Brahmanā D i.252; ii.239; Dh 105, 230; Vism 48, 405; DhA ii.60; acc. Brahmānaŋ D ii.37; voc. Brahme S i.138. -- 2. a brahma god, a happy & blameless celestial being, an inhabitant of the higher heavens (brahma -- loka; in which to be reborn is a reward of great merit); nom. sg. brahmā S i.142 (Baka br.); M i.327 (id.); A iv.83; PvA 138 (˚devatā for brahma˚?); gen. abl. brahmuno S i.142, 155; instr. brahmunā D iii.147, 150 & brahmanā PvA 98; voc. sg. brahme M i.328. pl. nom. brahmāno Miln 13, 18 (where J vi.486 has Mahā -- brahmā in id. p.); DhsA 195; gen. brahmānaŋVism 2; Mhbv 151. -- paccekabrahmā a br. by himself S i.149 (of the name of Tudu; cp. paccekabuddha). -- sabrahmaka(adj.) including the brahma gods D i.62; A ii.70; Vin i.11; DA i.174.

    III. brahma (adj. -- n.) [cp. brahmā II. 2; Vedic brahma˚ & Sk. brāhma] 1. holy, pious, brahmanic; (m.) a holy person, a brahmin -- (adj.) J ii.14 (br. vaṇṇa=seṭṭha vaṇṇa C.); KhA 151 (brahma -- cariyaŋ= brahmaŋ cariyaŋ). -- (m.) acc. brahmaŋ Sn 285; voc. brahme (frequent) Sn 1065 (=brahmā ti seṭṭhavacanaŋ SnA 592); J ii.346; iv.288; vi.524, 532; Pv i.129 (=brāhmaṇa PvA 66). -- 2. divine, as incorporating the highest & best qualities, sublime, ideal, best, very great (see esp. in cpds.), A i.132 (brahmā ti mātāpitaro etc.), 182; iv.76. -- 3. holy, sacred, divinely inspired (of the rites, charms, hymns etc.) D i.96 (brahme mante adhiyitvā); Pv ii.613 (mantaŋ brahmacintitaŋ) =brāhmaṇānaŋ atthāya brahmaṇā cintitaŋ) PvA 97, 98). -- Note. The compn form of all specified bases (I. II. III.) is brahma˚, and with regard to meaning it is often not to be decided to which of the 3 categories the cpd. in question belongs.​

    The Brahmans (those who preach ways to Brahma, believe in) here might rejoice in further elaborating toward their believes here.

    Here some accounts of the Buddha of what would really define a Brahma, and Brahman. Brahmanavagga: Brahmans

    The person from whom you would
    learn the Dhamma taught
    by the Rightly Self-Awakened One:
    you should honor him with respect
    — as a brahman, the flame for a sacrifice.​
     
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Brahman from a root (Proto-Indo-European) bhlagh-men- 'priest, flamen, wizard'
    Indo-European Lexicon: PIE Etymon and IE Reflexes
    involved Supreme God (saguna), uninvolved substance of the universe (nirguna).

    Brahma: The universe
    Brahmā: One of the Hindu Trinity, creator, writer of destiny.
    Other words used for Brahmā: Prajāpati, Brihaspati, Brahmanaspati, Dhātā, Vidhātā, Vidhi, etc.
     
    #2 Aupmanyav, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  3. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    What I find most interesting, coming from a Judeo-Christian point of view, is this separation of the creator from the two other divinities Vishnu and Shiva. I ask myself "what experience of the world would lead one to recognize the truth of this sort of Trinity?" I'm not asking out of wanting to say the Christian Trinity is better but rather to understand an answer to my question.

    I have had some "inklings" of this but nothing too clear as of yet.
     
  4. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    What does "Brahmā" mean in the following passage:

    5. “Then the thought occurs to the being who reappeared first: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer & Ruler, Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be.[9]

    Brahmajāla Sutta: The Brahmā Net

    Is it not "Brahmā" God?
    Just asking for information.

    Regards
     
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    You are welcome. Hinduism, as you know, is a mix. Assimilation, cocktail, and that is how it avoided bloodshed and maintained peace. Tribal, Indus Valley civilization, Vedic and who knows what.

    Brahma is not an indigenous God. He is an incorporated Vedic God just like Vishnu. Aryans termed their Supreme God as Prajapati (see my post above). The indigenous people did not accept Brahma completely. Even the Aryans were not very fond of Brahma/Prajapati.

    Why is that was an astronomical event, precession of equinox which made the spring rising of sun on the day of vernal equinox move from the asterism of Orion (Mrigashiras) towards that of Aldebaran (Rohini). Now Rohini was considered Prajapati's daughter. This movement was considered as incest by Aryans (sometime prior to 2,000 BCE) and deprecated. Basically, it altered their ritual calendar which began with Orion. By that time Indra had become the Supreme God.

    Even in today's Hinduism, Brahma is a sort of secondary God. He creates the universe but only at the behest of other deities - Vishnu, Shiva or Mother Goddess Durga (whoever is the chosen deity a particular person). Moreover, in later Hinduism, Brahma is not eternal. He is there for one creation (Kalpa). In a new 'Kalpa', a new Brahma takes over. Although a 'Kalpa' is considered to be very long period in human years, to be exact, 313,528,320,000,000 years (313 trillion +), i.e., from the beginning of one creation to its dissolution. But creation of the universe still has remained Brahma's domain.
    Paarsurrey, that is the Buddhist view of Brahma.
     
    #5 Aupmanyav, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
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  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    paarsurrey said:
    Brahmajāla Sutta: The Brahmā Net
    I understand. So, Buddha believed in God as per the passage I gave from Brahmajāla Sutta: The Brahmā Net. Right, please?
    Thanks
    Regards
     
  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    You need to study more about Buddhism before you can decide if Buddha believed in Brahma or not. :D
     
  8. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    The entire idea of a trimurti of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva isn't really that common in Hinduism. Yes it's there, but a far more common idea is that the head God of a particular sect, be it Vishnu (or one of his avatars) Siva, or Shakti, actually does it all ... emanation, sustaining, and dissolving.

    I believe the trimurti being highlighted came about when western indologists were analysing Hinduism were looking for something comparable to their own paradigm. So the closet thing to a trinity was a trimurthi, (or something like that)

    It is in all the encyclopedias, often front and center, and even Indians have succumbed to the idea that it's an important concept, when it really isn't.
     
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  9. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Brahma has just become a helping hand. :)
     
  10. ToGodorNottoGod

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    Very interesting. I have been studying a bit more in all this which is quite a jolt for me at this point in my life. Your explanation is helpful.
     
  11. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Only in one variation is that separation into three apparent, and it's not very common. In most of the sects of Hindusim, the Supreme God does it all. For example, in Saivism, Nataraja holds the drum of creation (emanation), his forward right hand held up is the sustaining element, and the left back hand starting His ring of fire is dissolution.

    Personally, I believe the trimurti came to be popular because of western indologists looking through their lens, looking for a parallel, when none exists.

    As a Saivite, I never think of Vishnu, or Brahma, as Siva does it all. So too for Shaktites, and Vaishnavites.
     
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