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Featured Both fully God and fully man

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by LightofTruth, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    Below is a quote from Desiring God website which explains how Jesus could be both fully God and fully man. The writer says:

    "Jesus is just as fully human as the rest of us, for just as he has all of the essential elements of the Godhead, he has all the essential elements of human nature: a human body, a human soul, a human mind, a human will, and human emotions. His human mind was not replaced by his divine mind. Rather, he has both a human and divine mind."

    According to the writer, Jesus has two minds and two wills.

    So, what do you think?

    Personally, I think it's hogwash.
     
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  2. Phaedrus

    Phaedrus Active Member

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    Because "desiring god" cannot be biased.
     
  3. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    I am fully a woman.
    I am fully a mother.
    I am fully a grandmother.
    I am fully a college graduate.
    I am fully old.
    I am fully really good at knitting lace.
    I am fully a singer.
    I am fully a teacher (well, used to be)
    I am fully a daughter
    I am fully a caretaker
    I am fully a patient
    I am fully an aunt
    I am fully LDS

    That Jesus is fully man and fully God isn't so big a stretch.
     
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  4. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    The moment "God" becomes anything other than "God" he, ceases to be a "God". Jesus, just like any man needed food, water, and had to use the restroom, all qualities not befitting of a "God". If a "God" needs to be dependent on something then, he ceases to be "God"
     
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  5. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    You are such an expert on this? How could you decide that if 'God becomes anything other than God, he ceases to be a God?" Isn't God all powerful? If He wants to be fully man, then He can be....and that doesn't even mess with logic.
     
  6. Phaedrus

    Phaedrus Active Member

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    God's so powerful, but he can't do anything.
    That's the gist.
     
  7. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    According to the website, Jesus could have a mind that recognized his Father as his God, and another mind that recognized himself to be God?
    Two minds within one person in conflict with themselves rather than one mind seeking to do the will of God.
     
  8. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    That's the argument I get from many who want to debunk the idea of God; God is so powerful, but He either CAN'T do anything, or SHOULD do something and when He doesn't, that's proof that He doesn't exist.

    (shrug)

    Whatever, I just don't see the problem with someone being fully man AND fully God, but then I'm LDS and that's simply not an issue we need to deal with.
     
  9. Phaedrus

    Phaedrus Active Member

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    LDS has many issues with which do deal, god being real certainly being the least.
     
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  10. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I stopped asking myself this question a long time ago.

    "If God is unknowable and beyond human rational thought, then who are you to tell me how to live, and start your claims with 'God says'?"

    Usually, Abrahamic religionists tell me it's because I don't have Faith.
    Tom
     
  11. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    Do you suppose Jesus had a mind that thought he wasn't God and a mind that knew he was God?
     
  12. Phaedrus

    Phaedrus Active Member

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    Jesus didn't exist. I'm not proposing anything on part of a fictional character.
     
  13. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    Okay, next.
     
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  14. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    Its not about being an expert, its about simple logic, following the Christian definition of God which is " God to be transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) " there are other definitions as well but, this seems to be the most befitting of a God and creator of all things. Also, if Jesus (a man) really was God, then why did he pray? Who is he praying to? To himself? To someone else? “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Those terrifying words occur in two Gospels — Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34 — as Jesus is hanging on the cross near death. Who can forsake God? How can God die? i am sure you begin to see the holes in your whole "hat doesn't even mess with logic" stance.
     
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  15. Phaedrus

    Phaedrus Active Member

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    Classical avoidance.
    Yeah, it's true.
    Jesus never existed.
     
  16. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    They explanation seems to be that Jesus has (even now) two natures. Two minds and two wills (even now, they say). One mind can pray to what is its God and another mind, of the one person, that is God's mind.
     
  17. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    There are indeed other definitions. It's the human intellect that thinks that God is this but not that because the human mind works in duality, comparing and contrasting.
     
  18. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    So you are saying that Jesus which God, has 2 natures,2 minds and 2 wills? If, Jesus is in fact God, are you saying he is not "Godly enough" to somehow have 1 nature, 1 mind and 1 will and make everything work? why the 2 minds? Why 2 wills? Why 2 natures? which mind, nature and will is supreme? Are you now saying there are 2 god not 1? And why does 1 mind need to pray if he is God? Who is God praying to? If one mind prays to the other than that praying mind is not the mind of a god but a human who prays to a God?
     
  19. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's not your problem.
     
  20. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Eh...I'm more likely to tell you it's because you don't think and can't get your mind away from all your preconcieved notions of what God can/must do in order to be God.

    ....and I won't ever start the conversation with 'God says.' I may start it with 'I believe that God says," but frankly except for personal prayer, everything we have from God came through some person, so saying "God Says" is a bit of a dicey statement to make. First one has to go confirm that He REALLY said 'that,' and that does involve some work and willingness to look foolish, even if only to oneself.
     
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