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Born this way a New understanding.

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Babies are all different. My sister when she was born would cry whenever a man held her except my father for the first 2 years. Some babies sleep through the night some babies cry through the night. I have 2 sons one was a crier the other not. All babies are unique, all children are unique and all adults are unique. Some of this uniqueness comes from birth we were born that way.

For some of us this means being born heterosexual, homosexual or transsexual but it can also mean being stubborn, open minded, book smart, artistic or sports inclined.

It can also mean being born homophobic, racist, psychotic.

It can mean being born non-believer or believer in God.

We are so varied as humans from birth to death that all beliefs are more than likely born into some individuals at some time, now the percentages can be argued but the fact that someone may have been born as they are can not.

My argument has always been that we can overcome our natural tendencies with work. Being born this way doesn't mean we have to be that way just that it is harder for us to change.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Babies are all different. My sister when she was born would cry whenever a man held her except my father for the first 2 years. Some babies sleep through the night some babies cry through the night. I have 2 sons one was a crier the other not. All babies are unique, all children are unique and all adults are unique. Some of this uniqueness comes from birth we were born that way.

For some of us this means being born heterosexual, homosexual or transsexual but it can also mean being stubborn, open minded, book smart, artistic or sports inclined.

It can also mean being born homophobic, racist, psychotic.

It can mean being born non-believer or believer in God.

We are so varied as humans from birth to death that all beliefs are more than likely born into some individuals at some time, now the percentages can be argued but the fact that someone may have been born as they are can not.

My argument has always been that we can overcome our natural tendencies with work. Being born this way doesn't mean we have to be that way just that it is harder for us to change.

Does this mean you believe a homosexual can learn to be straight?

I think we can modify our feelings a bit. I'm not sure we can completely get rid of them.

Some of it I don't think we are born with. Some of it we're taught. A lot easier to change our opinion on what we are taught vs something we are born feeling.

A lot easier to accept something we are taught if we are born feeling it's true anyways.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I would agree to some extent with the OP. I think genetics plays a role in influencing at least some beliefs -- or at least, tendencies towards certain beliefs.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Does this mean you believe a homosexual can learn to be straight?

I think we can modify our feelings a bit. I'm not sure we can completely get rid of them.

Some of it I don't think we are born with. Some of it we're taught. A lot easier to change our opinion on what we are taught vs something we are born feeling.

A lot easier to accept something we are taught if we are born feeling it's true anyways.

Can a artist learn to play sports? They may not be the best at it or they may not be happy doing it but I believe they can. The question is why should they. If it is a natural tendency and hurts no one, it should be encouraged as it will allow them to be their best and be happy.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
No one's born racist or homophobic. Those are entirely social constructs and have to be learned. Don't give them an excuse not to be a decent human being.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
No one's born racist or homophobic. Those are entirely social constructs and have to be learned. Don't give them an excuse not to be a decent human being.
I agree. But I think we do have an innate tendency to fear the "other" (i.e. those who look, talk or act differently than ourselves) and it is that which develops into religious (or anti-religious) intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia etc. given the "right" environment and nurturing. That is the challenge for societies and families - to help their children to "un-learn" their natural, but irrational, fear of difference (even their own) so that it does not develop into either outward racism or homophobia or the inward mental stress and psychological problems that come from denying their 'true' sexual orientations (for example) but rather develops into a rational embracing of the difference and diversity displayed among the human family.
 

Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
I agree. But I think we do have an innate tendency to fear the "other" (i.e. those who look, talk or act differently than ourselves) and it is that which develops into religious (or anti-religious) intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia etc. given the "right" environment and nurturing. That is the challenge for societies and families - to help their children to "un-learn" their natural, but irrational, fear of difference (even their own) so that it does not develop into either outward racism or homophobia or the inward mental stress and psychological problems that come from denying their 'true' sexual orientations (for example) but rather develops into a rational embracing of the difference and diversity displayed among the human family.
I'm just imagining your avatar saying that and cracking up. Anyway, that was a really well formulated post. Nicely done!
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
No one's born racist or homophobic. Those are entirely social constructs and have to be learned. Don't give them an excuse not to be a decent human being.

Just because you don't like the belief does mean its not true, racist is know to be a survival instinct. Being afraid of people different then you helps you to survive. A racist is just someone born or learned an extreme amount of fear. Homophobia is just the opposite of homosexual. If you can be born homosexual you can definitely be born homophobic. Again there are species survival properties of homophobia.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I agree. But I think we do have an innate tendency to fear the "other" (i.e. those who look, talk or act differently than ourselves) and it is that which develops into religious (or anti-religious) intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia etc. given the "right" environment and nurturing. That is the challenge for societies and families - to help their children to "un-learn" their natural, but irrational, fear of difference (even their own) so that it does not develop into either outward racism or homophobia or the inward mental stress and psychological problems that come from denying their 'true' sexual orientations (for example) but rather develops into a rational embracing of the difference and diversity displayed among the human family.

All beliefs can be born or learned. Racism and homophobia both have species survival aspects.

Just because you don't like the belief does mean its not true, racist is know to be a survival instinct. Being afraid of people different then you helps you to survive. A racist is just someone born or learned an extreme amount of fear. Homophobia is just the opposite of homosexual. If you can be born homosexual you can definitely be born homophobic. Again there are species survival properties of homophobia.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
How do you separate the characteristics one may have been born with and those one may have learned later?

I don't know if that is possible. It doesn't matter either way, if you developed the characteristics it is just as hard to undeveloped them.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
But you say 'born that way' and they might just as well not be

I don't see how that's an issue why is someone born that way more or less important than one that learned to be that way. People however shy from accusing you if you were born that way and like to blame others if you were made. They also seem to think the second is easier to fix. The thing for me is realizing that negative things to society that have survival benefits are also born to us. Just as you can be born an artist, you can be born a murder. You are still wrong being a murder and need to be helped to change.

People want to believe our negative aspects can be wiped out with laws, rallies and self help groups. They don't want to believe that nature has built in negative aspects to society and that it will take 10,000's of years perhaps 100,000 to possible reduce our negative aspects and possibly never. For me realizing that they are natural can help deal with them.
 

Shushersbedamned

Well-Known Member
I don't see how that's an issue why is someone born that way more or less important than one that learned to be that way. People however shy from accusing you if you were born that way and like to blame others if you were made. They also seem to think the second is easier to fix. The thing for me is realizing that negative things to society that have survival benefits are also born to us. Just as you can be born an artist, you can be born a murder. You are still wrong being a murder and need to be helped to change.

People want to believe our negative aspects can be wiped out with laws, rallies and self help groups. They don't want to believe that nature has built in negative aspects to society and that it will take 10,000's of years perhaps 100,000 to possible reduce our negative aspects and possibly never. For me realizing that they are natural can help deal with them.
I'm overwhelmed by a ton of assumptions.. your theory is not only doubtful but also useless. You want to save the society, start by saving an individual.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I'm overwhelmed by a ton of assumptions.. your theory is not only doubtful but also useless. You want to save the society, start by saving an individual.
I am not trying to save society. I don't have the tools needed. I have come to a personal understanding an epiphany of sorts for me that I wanted to share with interest in others thoughts.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I agree. But I think we do have an innate tendency to fear the "other" (i.e. those who look, talk or act differently than ourselves) and it is that which develops into religious (or anti-religious) intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia etc. given the "right" environment and nurturing.
I disagree. Among rational people I think that at most there may be distrust, but normally it would be curiosity. Fear has to have reason to back it up, and that reason has to have been acquired through past influences, either through personal experience, including psychological peculiarities, or outside sources.

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