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Border Security- Then and Now

Discussion in 'The Political World' started by Stanyon, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but it is well down the priority list. If you want to get passed a wall, it is easy - tunnels, microlight, ladders, ropes, the list is endless.
    Most (i.e. about 90%) of illegals, etc. come in through airports - even Fox News are incredulous that Trump is focusing on ancient methods to stop so few getting in.
    Meanwhile, whilst the government shutdown continues airport security is compromised.
     
  2. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    OK I apologise, you can read, you just can't reason.

    [click]

    Next.......
     
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  3. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Nope, that's why you put up the sniper towers and fill the Rio Grande with alligators. :D
     
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  4. Shad

    Shad Well-Known Member

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    Trump is asking for half of funding the fence cost from the 06 bill and what was actually spend by Bush in 06.
     
    #24 Shad, Jan 10, 2019 at 5:39 AM
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019 at 7:33 AM
  5. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    I see most of this as a pointless distraction. There already are walls and barriers along much of the border anyway, so it's obvious that the question isn't really about whether there should be a wall or not. Both parties have supported border security and claim to be against illegal immigration, at least in theory. On the other hand, both parties have also been turning a blind eye to the situation for a very long time, at least in terms of going after the employers of undocumented immigrants. I've also heard some argue the economic benefits of illegal immigration, generally using the argument that "they do the jobs Americans won't do."

    This is really nothing new. This overall debate has been going on for decades, so regardless of Trump's possible motivations for pushing this, I do think it's way past time for both parties to poop or get off the pot regarding this. Both parties seem to have a split personality regarding this, and both seem to want to eat their cake and have it, too. They enjoy the benefits of having a cheap, under-the-table labor force while lacking the principles and backbone to make them totally legal (which would make them subject to labor laws, minimum wage laws, worker safety and other rights).

    This also relates to a similar split personality over our relationship with our neighbor to the south. On the one hand, the powers that be have touted a "good neighbor" policy, free trade, and consider Mexico to be a close friend and ally of the United States. On the other hand, there's a lot of fear-mongering about drug smuggling (which both parties have stoked in their support of the war on drugs) and other alleged "dangers" in relation to Mexico and the rest of Latin America.

    Trump may be the center of attention at the moment, but the reality is both parties are to blame for this mess.
     
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  6. Stanyon

    Stanyon RF's Ultra -Square

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    Bill, Hillary, and Obama weren't very smart or forward thinking were they?
     
  7. Shad

    Shad Well-Known Member

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    Fair evaluation.
     
  8. Shad

    Shad Well-Known Member

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    China has a border fence with NK although its not along the whole border. It's manned by the army. More to keep the NKs in then anything else.
     
  9. Stanyon

    Stanyon RF's Ultra -Square

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    That is a long continued lie that was pushed by political strategists opposed to Trump that wanted to exploit and divide using race and emotion as a tool for manipulation except it wasn't an imaginary "dog whistle", it was bullhorns with mainstream media support.
     
    #29 Stanyon, Jan 10, 2019 at 7:44 AM
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019 at 8:18 AM
  10. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, they got many things wrong.
     
  11. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Interesting insight and makes a lot of sense: we have much the same discussion in the UK regarding migration from the EU. Generally those that come are the motivated ones, who will get a job - often a menial one the locals despise - and do not usually sponge off the state. With a growing economy and low unemployment it is hard to make the case that the newcomers are stealing jobs or a drain on the state.

    The issue is a political totem, used, as I say, by Trump to dog-whistle votes from the xenophobic/racist tendency in the electorate.
     
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  12. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Why are you unable to answer my questions?
     
  13. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Where did you drudge up that stat?

    Also, in light of that statistic, how do you explain the majority of illegal immigrants being in border States?

    Blame the shutdown on the democrats who approved the building of a border fence/wall up until Trump wanted it too.
     
  14. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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  15. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    It should be "dredge". Just as it should be Prester John.
     
  16. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps, although the electorate is pretty much a mixed bag. A lot of people who fall into the category you're describing would vehemently deny that they're as xenophobic or racist as some would paint them. They often maintain that they support legal immigration, but are against illegal immigration.

    The war on drugs is also another sticky point, which a lot of Democrats have bought into. Both the Clinton and Obama administrations were firmly against legalization, which in my view betrays a core principle of liberalism and individual freedom. But in the process, they themselves have created large segments of the electorate who are paranoid and scared about drug smuggling and so forth. They already got the electorate thinking along those lines, making it much easier for Trump to capitalize on.
     
  17. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    This article is ridiculous and makes no sense.

    If there are aliens entering the United States by walking across the border, then there would be no way for anyone to count or verify that they crossed.

    Having a border wall would ensure that all crossings happen only at designated points of entry. Which would make sure that all entrants pass through customs and immigration.

    Comparing number of illegal aliens apprehended at the points of entry or the number of overstays is irrelevant to that unknown number of people who cross outside the points of entry without visa.

    I can't believe how silly some people are.
     
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  18. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    It seems that your don't have a sense of humor.

    Nor do you understand how the choosing of usernames work.

    Shouldn't it be "ex-chemist"?
     
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  19. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    So, if we can't measure the numbers...where does Trump get his figures from?
     
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  20. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Which figures?
     
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