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Featured Book Of Revelation In Jewish Context (rev 1:4-7)

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by sooda, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    While the book of Revelation is an apocalypse when it comes to its genre, it is not a pure apocalypse (1) in that it is set in the context of a letter. We can see this clearly in the following verses. The Book of Revelation is not really a book; it is in fact a letter addressed to churches in the province of Asia. By its own witness, this apocalyptic letter also contains prophecy (Rev. 1:3, 22:7).

    It is common to think of prophecy as predictions, but to an Israelite mind prophecy is primarily a proclamation of previously known truth, a call to return and not to forget the important matters. Thus, the Book of Revelation can be called an apocalyptic letter containing prophecy, combining at least three genres in one document (apocalyptic, epistolary and prophetic).

    While it is not possible to say with full confidence who exactly was this John who wrote Revelation, it is clear that his identity was known to the seven historic churches mentioned in the letter. The author must have been authoritative enough to be accepted since the Revelation of John was not the only apocalypse at that time. However, the authorship of John the Apostle is early and strongly attested.

    Several 2nd century congregational leaders (such as Melito, bishop of Sardis (c. 165CE) (2) and Irenaeus of Smyrna (c. 180 CE), (3) whose churches were among the original recipients of the letter of Revelation (4)) explicitly mention that the letter was believed to be from John the Apostle.

    The case for Johaninne authorship of Revelation ironically is stronger than that of the Gospel of John.

    The most significant argument in favor of another author (meaning that the author of the fourth gospel and Revelation is not the same person) is that the Greek of Revelation is significantly lower in quality than the Greek of the Gospel of John. This, however, could be easily resolved by positing that John used a scribe for the composition of the Gospel (as did Paul (5) among many others in Roman antiquity), but that no scribe was available to him as he composed the book of Revelation since it was written when he was under house arrest on the Island of Patmos. In other words, he was left with his own limited Greek language skills.

    All seven churches mentioned in the letter are located within the system of Ancient Roman roads. It was therefore actually possible for the letter to make a full circle of all the locations after it was originally delivered and be read in the individual congregations.

    Not all known congregations in Asia were addressed (for example, the congregation at Colossae). The letter is tied to the importance of the number seven, pointing to the symbolic nature of the churches. It is likely that the seven actual historic congregations symbolize all the churches existent at the time of John and even beyond that historical setting.

    Grace and peace to you from “he who is,” and who was, and who is still to come, …

    The passage is an allusion to Ex. 3:14 according to the Greek language Septuagint version where God refers to himself as “he who is” (ὁ ὤν). The Greek is translated from the divine self-description in Hebrew אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה (I am who I am). John uses the same wording only in this place in Greek (6). God’s unpronounceable name YHWH is believed to be connected to the verb “to be” in Hebrew. It is a composite of past, present and future aspects all present in one word, “who is and the one who was, and who will be.” The hint is deliberate.

    (I have broken the paragraphs up for easier reading)

    continued

    https://blog.israelbiblicalstudies....ewish-context-rev-14-7-dr-eli-lizorkin-eyzen/
     
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  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    I think this is difficult. If anyone has an easier account on Jewish views of the Book of Revelation, I would like to see it.
     
  3. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "Jewish views." Judaism doesn't really care about the Christian texts. While some scholars look at the gospel books and see if they can fit them into the mindset of a Jewish writer at the time, Judaism has no particular interest in the works.
     
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  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    This is from the Israeli Institute of Biblical Studies.

    REVELATION (BOOK OF) - JewishEncyclopedia.com
    jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12712-revelation-book-of
    The Epistles are, like the Gospel, Pauline in spirit and written for Pauline churches; the Book of Revelation remains, under its Christian cloak, a Jewish document.
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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  6. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Most likely the church added them at the time of the Canonization, where we can still see the sticky tape, and glue.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    So.. No evidence.

    No one is even sure John of Patmos and the Gospel of John were written by the same John.

    Further, there are two other gospels of John written after 100 AD.
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    '>Revelation 22:13

    "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."



    '>Revelation 1:8

    "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


    '>Revelation 21:6-7

    Then He said to me, "It is done I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.


    '>Revelation 1:17-18

    When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.


    '>Isaiah 44:6

    "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.


    '>Isaiah 48:12

    "Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
     
  10. Cleary

    Cleary God is sovereign and in control <><

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    #10 Cleary, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  11. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the institute is an academic institution looking at things, not necessarily representative of how the Jewish religion looks at anything.

    An encyclopedia is not generally acting as a branch of religion. The 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia is often very removed from many threads of Judaism. If you want to know what the academics think of the book of Revelation and how the text is impacted by concepts which stem from Judaism, that's great. But Judaism has no interest in the text.
     
  12. Cleary

    Cleary God is sovereign and in control <><

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    But Judaism has no interest in the text < indeed, the Jews are still anticipating their Messiah ... antichrist soon to come

    Swhat I love about the Bible ....
    the story is not over yet ..
    for the believer, the best is yet to come,
    for the non-believer, not so much

    [​IMG] ...... Revelation
     
    #12 Cleary, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  13. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    There may be some ordinary Jewish people who are interested.

    1. Illuminating the Afterlife of Ancient Apocryphal Jewish ...
      Illuminating the Afterlife of Ancient Apocryphal Jewish Literature...

    2. The study of ancient Jewish apocryphal literature has attracted significant attention during the past sixty years, a focus that has produced a plethora of annotated anthologies, new western language translations, critical textual editions, and a series of analytical studies which probe the import of this material for reconstructing the intellectual history of early Judaism and nascent Christianity.

    3. Ladd: The Kingdom of God in the Jewish Apocryphal Literature
      faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/ntesources/ntarticles/…

    4. There are four main sources for our knowledge of Jewish thought in New Testament times: the New Testament, Jose- phus, the talmudic literature, and the Apocrypha and Pseu- depigrapha. Josephus has nothing to say about the kingdom or Messianic expectations of the …
     
  14. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    ordinary Jewish people might be interested in the Jewish view of the afterlife and a professor at the DTS might be interested in what he views as Judaism and its relationship to Christian texts, but so what? You said that you were looking for "Jewish views of the Book of Revelation." The Jewish view of the text is that it is irrelevant. While individual Jews, acting in their roles as scholars and not Jews might like to study all sorts of texts the way others look at Shakespeare as scholars of literature, that doesn't mean that their view is a specifically Jewish view of the text.
     
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  15. Workman

    Workman UNIQUE

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    This is for one who finds the father
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I wonder why you say forgeries because we are all invited to pray the invitation for Jesus to come - Rev. 22:20.
    'Come' in our time frame according to setting as found at Revelation 1:10.
    Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2. That is Not a forgery.
    Because mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the ' healing of earth's nations .
    This is in fulfillment of God's promise to father Abraham that 'ALL families' and 'ALL nations' of earth will be blessed.
    Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations.
    - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; 18:18; Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 35th chapter; Isaiah 11:6-9; Isaiah 65:21-25
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the word ' afterlife ' often carries the idea of being more alive after death than before death.
    Father Abraham, in connection to Isaac, believed in 'resurrection' which is different than afterlife.
    Thus, to me while dead in ' sheol ' there is No life in the grave, but as King Solomon wrote the dead know nothing.
    Nothing but ' sleep ' as per Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    One young Jewish man told me he was Not looking for Messiah to come. He did Not say why.

    As far as ' anti-christ ' in Scripture I find there is No one anti-christ person, but includes anyone who is against Christ.
    - 1 John 2:18; 1 John 2:22; 1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7
    What is soon to come is the ' final signal ', so to speak, as found at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
    This is when the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security... " as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    As with KJV Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
    The 'LORD' in all Upper-Case letters stands for the Tetragrammaton.
    The 'Lord' in some lower-case letters stands for the Lord Jesus, and the Tetragrammaton never applies.
    The heavenly resurrected-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Remember: The apocryphal books simply exclude themselves being out of harmony with the '66' Bible books.
    The ' 66' books of Bible canon I find have corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages which show the internal harmony among the Bible writers.
    ALL of John's writings are before the end of the 1st century and are in harmony with the rest.
     
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