The book of the second link is called" Dark prophecy of Nemesis" correct? Please go to the title page of the book from the link.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Book Discussion: The Principal Upanishads.
- Thread starter sayak83
- Start date
ajay0
Well-Known Member
Check the front cover of the book...
It states ," THE DARK PROPHECY OF NEMESIS - THE PROPHECY OF DESTRUCTION OF MOST OF THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT BY THE MAJOR IMPACT OF A CELESTIAL OBJECT....BLAH,BLAH, BLAH..."
Nice scholarly reference for the Katha Upanishad...
There are references to the Upanishads and Buddha in this, but I don't know if the author are using them as arguments in some wild context, to support his theory of the above said destruction by meteors to sell his book.
Last edited:
I am not sure what the three fires represent. But it looks to be an actual fire ritual (Yajna) which, when performed thrice, was believed to lead to one to heaven after death and be one of the heaven's residents. But Upanishads are about Self-realization which is considered more important than gaining the heavens through prescribed ritual acts. That is the context in which Nachiketas asks about the truth behind Death considering that insight more valuable than living in heaven or in earth with vast wealth and all desires satiated.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is exactly why Nachiketa rejected all other offers of Yama but asked him to answer his question as the third boon.
".. all worldly treasures and heavenly pleasures come to an end sooner or later. If not day after, after hundred years. These are not permanent means of enjoyment. He insists to get the ultimate knowledge of Self, .."
".. all worldly treasures and heavenly pleasures come to an end sooner or later. If not day after, after hundred years. These are not permanent means of enjoyment. He insists to get the ultimate knowledge of Self, .."
I think it time to move to chapter II.
Pasting the entire part here for easy review.
1
Yama said: The good is one thing; the pleasant, another. Both of these, serving different needs, bind a man. It goes well with him who, of the two, takes the good; but he who chooses the pleasant misses the end.
2
Both the good and the pleasant present themselves to a man. The calm soul examines them well and discriminates. Yea, he prefers the good to the pleasant; but the fool chooses the pleasant out of greed and avarice.
3
O Nachiketa, after pondering well the pleasures that are or seem to be delightful, you have renounced them all. You have not taken the road abounding in wealth, where many men sink.
4
Wide apart and leading to different ends are these two: ignorance and what is known as Knowledge. I regard you, O Nachiketa, to be one who desires Knowledge; for even many pleasures could not tempt you away.
5
Fools dwelling in darkness, but thinking themselves wise and erudite, go round and round, by various tortuous paths, like the blind led by the blind.
6
The Hereafter never reveals itself to a person devoid of discrimination, heedless and perplexed by the delusion of wealth. "This world alone exists," he thinks, "and there is no other." Again and again he comes under my sway.
7
Many there are who do not even hear of Atman; though hearing of Him, many do not comprehend. Wonderful is the expounder and rare the hearer; rare indeed is the experiencer of Atman taught by an able preceptor.
8
Atman, when taught by an inferior person, is not easily comprehended, because It is diversely regarded by disputants. But when It is taught by him who has become one with Atman, there can remain no more doubt about It. Atman is subtler than the subtlest and not to be known through argument.
9
This Knowledge cannot be attained by reasoning. Atman become easy of comprehension, O dearest, when taught by another. You have attained this Knowledge now. You are, indeed, a man of true resolve. May we always have an inquirer like you!
10
Yama said: I know that the treasure resulting from action is not eternal; for what is eternal cannot be obtained by the non-eternal. Yet I have performed the Nachiketa sacrifice with the help of non-eternal things and attained this position which is only relatively eternal.
11
The fulfilment of desires, the foundation of the universe, the rewards of sacrifices, the shore where there is no fear, that which adorable and great, the wide abode and the goal-all this you have seen; and being wise, you have with firm resolve discarded everything.
12
The wise man who, by means of concentration on the Self, realises that ancient, effulgent One, who is hard to be seen, unmanifest, hidden and who dwells in the buddhi and rests in the body-he, indeed, leaves joy and sorrow far behind.
13
The mortal who has heard this and comprehended it well, who has separated that Atman, the very soul of dharma, from all physical objects and has realised the subtle essence, rejoices because he has obtained that which is the cause of rejoicing. The Abode of Brahman, I believe, is open for Nachiketa.
14
Nachiketa said: That which you see as other than righteousness and unrighteousness, other than all this cause and effect, other than what has been and what is to be-tell me That.
15
Yama said: The goal which all the Vedas declare, which all austerities aim at and which men desire when they lead the life of continence, I will tell you briefly: it is Om.
16
This syllable Om is indeed Brahman. This syllable is the Highest. Whosoever knows this syllable obtains all that he desires.
17
This is the best support; this is the highest support. Whosoever knows this support is adored in the world of Brahma.
18
The knowing Self is not born; It does not die. It has not sprung from anything; nothing has sprung from It. Birthless, eternal, everlasting and ancient, It is not killed when the body is killed.
19
If the killer thinks he kills and if the killed man thinks he is killed, neither of these apprehends aright. The Self kills not, nor is It killed.
20
Atman, smaller than the small, greater than the great, is hidden in the hearts of all living creatures. A man who is free from desires beholds the majesty of the Self through tranquillity of the senses and the mind and becomes free from grief.
21
Though sitting still, It travels far; though lying down, It goes everywhere. Who but myself can know that luminous Atman who rejoices and rejoices not?
22
The wise man, having realised Atman as dwelling within impermanent bodies but Itself bodiless, vast and all-pervading, does not grieve.
23
This Atman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals Its own form.
He who has not first turn away from wickedness, who is not tranquil and subdued and whose mind is not at peace, cannot attain Atman. It is realised only through the Knowledge of Reality.
25
Who, then, knows where He is-He to whom Brahmins and kshattriyas are mere food and death itself a condiment?
Read and post your thoughts. Lots to discuss here.
Pasting the entire part here for easy review.
1
Yama said: The good is one thing; the pleasant, another. Both of these, serving different needs, bind a man. It goes well with him who, of the two, takes the good; but he who chooses the pleasant misses the end.
2
Both the good and the pleasant present themselves to a man. The calm soul examines them well and discriminates. Yea, he prefers the good to the pleasant; but the fool chooses the pleasant out of greed and avarice.
3
O Nachiketa, after pondering well the pleasures that are or seem to be delightful, you have renounced them all. You have not taken the road abounding in wealth, where many men sink.
4
Wide apart and leading to different ends are these two: ignorance and what is known as Knowledge. I regard you, O Nachiketa, to be one who desires Knowledge; for even many pleasures could not tempt you away.
5
Fools dwelling in darkness, but thinking themselves wise and erudite, go round and round, by various tortuous paths, like the blind led by the blind.
6
The Hereafter never reveals itself to a person devoid of discrimination, heedless and perplexed by the delusion of wealth. "This world alone exists," he thinks, "and there is no other." Again and again he comes under my sway.
7
Many there are who do not even hear of Atman; though hearing of Him, many do not comprehend. Wonderful is the expounder and rare the hearer; rare indeed is the experiencer of Atman taught by an able preceptor.
8
Atman, when taught by an inferior person, is not easily comprehended, because It is diversely regarded by disputants. But when It is taught by him who has become one with Atman, there can remain no more doubt about It. Atman is subtler than the subtlest and not to be known through argument.
9
This Knowledge cannot be attained by reasoning. Atman become easy of comprehension, O dearest, when taught by another. You have attained this Knowledge now. You are, indeed, a man of true resolve. May we always have an inquirer like you!
10
Yama said: I know that the treasure resulting from action is not eternal; for what is eternal cannot be obtained by the non-eternal. Yet I have performed the Nachiketa sacrifice with the help of non-eternal things and attained this position which is only relatively eternal.
11
The fulfilment of desires, the foundation of the universe, the rewards of sacrifices, the shore where there is no fear, that which adorable and great, the wide abode and the goal-all this you have seen; and being wise, you have with firm resolve discarded everything.
12
The wise man who, by means of concentration on the Self, realises that ancient, effulgent One, who is hard to be seen, unmanifest, hidden and who dwells in the buddhi and rests in the body-he, indeed, leaves joy and sorrow far behind.
13
The mortal who has heard this and comprehended it well, who has separated that Atman, the very soul of dharma, from all physical objects and has realised the subtle essence, rejoices because he has obtained that which is the cause of rejoicing. The Abode of Brahman, I believe, is open for Nachiketa.
14
Nachiketa said: That which you see as other than righteousness and unrighteousness, other than all this cause and effect, other than what has been and what is to be-tell me That.
15
Yama said: The goal which all the Vedas declare, which all austerities aim at and which men desire when they lead the life of continence, I will tell you briefly: it is Om.
16
This syllable Om is indeed Brahman. This syllable is the Highest. Whosoever knows this syllable obtains all that he desires.
17
This is the best support; this is the highest support. Whosoever knows this support is adored in the world of Brahma.
18
The knowing Self is not born; It does not die. It has not sprung from anything; nothing has sprung from It. Birthless, eternal, everlasting and ancient, It is not killed when the body is killed.
19
If the killer thinks he kills and if the killed man thinks he is killed, neither of these apprehends aright. The Self kills not, nor is It killed.
20
Atman, smaller than the small, greater than the great, is hidden in the hearts of all living creatures. A man who is free from desires beholds the majesty of the Self through tranquillity of the senses and the mind and becomes free from grief.
21
Though sitting still, It travels far; though lying down, It goes everywhere. Who but myself can know that luminous Atman who rejoices and rejoices not?
22
The wise man, having realised Atman as dwelling within impermanent bodies but Itself bodiless, vast and all-pervading, does not grieve.
23
This Atman cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, or by intelligence, or by much hearing of sacred books. It is attained by him alone whom It chooses. To such a one Atman reveals Its own form.
He who has not first turn away from wickedness, who is not tranquil and subdued and whose mind is not at peace, cannot attain Atman. It is realised only through the Knowledge of Reality.
25
Who, then, knows where He is-He to whom Brahmins and kshattriyas are mere food and death itself a condiment?
Read and post your thoughts. Lots to discuss here.
I am by no means an authority on Upanishads translation, but given this was very easy to read and understand, I would have to conclude it's one of the better ones.
Verse 8 discusses the teachings of Atman, and the comparison between being taught by someone who has not become one with with It and one that has not. I'm interested to hear opinions from those reading here on the realization of the Atman without having been taught be either. While I have admittedly not read a great deal of Hindu scripture until a few years ago, I discovered my true nature, what I have been calling my higher Self (making a distinction from what I have grown accustomed to calling the ego self), more than a decade ago without anyone suggesting the existence of Atman to me. What is the consensus on this? Since I was not taught as suggested in verse 8, does this in any way, in the eyes of a Hindu, diminish this earlier realization (not that this would have any impact on my spirituality; I'm asking more out of curiosity than anything else)?
I'm also curious about verses 15 and 16 that discuss the syllable 'Om.' While I understand the meaning of the symbol, I would like to hear some insights to how the syllable itself relates to Brahman. I've heard is suggested that the vibration of the syllable is 'in tune' with the Absolute Reality. Is this the generally accepted explanation?
Also, forgive my ignorance, but I'm not really familiar with the terms Brahmin and Kshattriya. A cursory Google search tells me that these are social orders in the Hindu society. I'm curious as to thoughts as to the meaning of Yama's suggestion that they are mere food.
Apologies if I'm opening too many cans of worms at once here.
Verse 8 discusses the teachings of Atman, and the comparison between being taught by someone who has not become one with with It and one that has not. I'm interested to hear opinions from those reading here on the realization of the Atman without having been taught be either. While I have admittedly not read a great deal of Hindu scripture until a few years ago, I discovered my true nature, what I have been calling my higher Self (making a distinction from what I have grown accustomed to calling the ego self), more than a decade ago without anyone suggesting the existence of Atman to me. What is the consensus on this? Since I was not taught as suggested in verse 8, does this in any way, in the eyes of a Hindu, diminish this earlier realization (not that this would have any impact on my spirituality; I'm asking more out of curiosity than anything else)?
I'm also curious about verses 15 and 16 that discuss the syllable 'Om.' While I understand the meaning of the symbol, I would like to hear some insights to how the syllable itself relates to Brahman. I've heard is suggested that the vibration of the syllable is 'in tune' with the Absolute Reality. Is this the generally accepted explanation?
Also, forgive my ignorance, but I'm not really familiar with the terms Brahmin and Kshattriya. A cursory Google search tells me that these are social orders in the Hindu society. I'm curious as to thoughts as to the meaning of Yama's suggestion that they are mere food.
Apologies if I'm opening too many cans of worms at once here.
Srivijaya
Active Member
Atman is just another label when all is said and done.
It is comprised of three elements A-U-M which symbolise the following:
A = The waking state
U = The dream state
M = The dreamless state
The combination of the three is OM (the fourth state) beyond all concepts and division - Brahman, the supreme.
That's my non-Hindu understanding of it but I may be corrected.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I do understand the meaning of the symbol. What I'm seeking to understand is the audible meaning. What is the significance of speaking the syllable audibly, such as in mantras?
Good question. I don't know. It's more of a meditation aid for me.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
When OM is chanted, the prana or chi is increased, which again helps in expansion of consciousness.
This is why it is often used as a mantra or part of mantras.
Because of the increase in prana or chi, there has been cases of physical healing as well amongst those who regularly chant Om.
Most meditation sessions also start with a three time chant of Om, based on this principle of increased prana facilitating meditation.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
Om as a chant is just a useful tool for meditation. Nothing more than that.
I know of a person who attained enlightenment after practicing Awareness as a state of being meticulously, with conviction for six months, while attending to his professional and personal duties. He never used to chant OM or any mantras or perform any religious rituals, and even took nonvegetarian food.
However, he was very precise in being in a state of pure consciousness or Awareness, and this enabled him to attain enlightenment or Nirvana.
Imho, the traits that distinguished him was his mental strength, precise and orderly thought process, diligent application due to his rigorous training and work as a pharmacist, which demands a lot of exactitude.
I know of a person who attained enlightenment after practicing Awareness as a state of being meticulously, with conviction for six months, while attending to his professional and personal duties. He never used to chant OM or any mantras or perform any religious rituals, and even took nonvegetarian food.
However, he was very precise in being in a state of pure consciousness or Awareness, and this enabled him to attain enlightenment or Nirvana.
Imho, the traits that distinguished him was his mental strength, precise and orderly thought process, diligent application due to his rigorous training and work as a pharmacist, which demands a lot of exactitude.
Last edited:
Srivijaya
Active Member
I see it as a means, rather than something which has 'significance'. See if the mantra works for you in inducing samhadi, if not move on. Buddhist mantras feature it but I have found other means more helpful, as mantras only take me so far, and that's not very far.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Taught. Taught by whom? A guru, elders, by a book which carried the sayings of wise person, and then supplemented by your life-experience? All this is teaching, and all valid. It is not necessary to have a living guru. I was taught by Upanishads and what Buddha and Sankara said. Brahman can be realized even if one has no living guru. It does not diminish whatever way realization has come to you.
Now as you know, some people will take Brahman to be the Supreme Soul and separate from themselves (Dvaita), some would not take a central position (same but not exactly so, Vishishtadvaita, Bhedabheda, etc.) and some like myself will take everything including themselves as Brahman itself (Advaita). That is a person's choice, depending on his inclination.
OM is a later, Upanishadic time development, I do not think it is in RigVeda. It became a symbol for Brahman and important in all Indic religions (Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikism). Since it it not in RigVeda, I do not use it and can do without it. Though for most people it has a nice vibration which I do not deny.
"He to whom Brahmins and kshatriyas are mere food and death itself a condiment?" Every one will be consumed by death, irrespective of their social position. So, all are food for Yama and death.
Salix, no need for apologies. We are happy to answer your questions to the best of our ability and knowledge.
Last edited:
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
This is very profound. It is saying that Atman, the interior One, chooses a person to whom knowledge is revealed and to him the form of the Atman is revealed in so far as Atman decides should be revealed. What the person does with that knowledge to translate it to ethics and action (develop his dharma) depends on the individual in that he/she has to understand the guidance that is received. So Atman cannot be realised until It has decided to intervene in the life of an individual. So Atman is being presented as a personal God.
The features required for a person to attain Atman is described. It is very accurate from my own personal experience. Yes, I have attained Atman without a shadow of doubt through intense perseverence.
Last edited:
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
It takes years of incessant endeavours to examine Atman and get to know It. It is indeed very subtle but on surrender wholeheartedly protects the individual from falling away from his path of dharma that he/she has learnt. One becomes one with Atman by surrendering to ones inner guide.
Who is It that is the Atman who is choosing? Who are you?
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Atman is the inner Consciousness that a jiva can connect with. A jiva is the body and mind of a living being. When the search for inner Guide is strong, the Atman (Consciousness) makes itself Personal and allows the jiva to develop his/her knowledge of the Reality in which he/she lives. In doing so Atman is choosing the person for special guidance. Atman will prompt the jiva into the search and action. So you can say that it is synonymous to God-Consciousness to whom bhakti develops because the guidance is perfect for the individual concerned.
I am nothing but a jiva with a body and mind. Atman is therefore God's Consciousness to whom we as jivas can transcend our gunas for attaining.
In this exposition from Katha Upanisad, one is being pointed to Dwaita Vedanta.