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Book Discussion: The Principal Upanishads.

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Its fantastic propounding of the atma being the true enjoyer, the material world and the material senses being fleeting, and its description of the Supreme, the Supreme Joy, is both very good and very pleasing :)

Thank you for making this thread Sayak :D
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I thought we should begin with Katha Upanishad, as it's quite popular and compact. What do you folks think?

Sounds good to me. How are we going about this? Are we reading through a chapter by a certain day and then discussing chapter by chapter as they are read, or are we doing this by verse, or are we reading the whole Katha Upanishad and then discussing?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sounds good to me. How are we going about this? Are we reading through a chapter by a certain day and then discussing chapter by chapter as they are read, or are we doing this by verse, or are we reading the whole Katha Upanishad and then discussing?
Chapter by chapter. One chapter a week would be good.
Me just waiting to see if other folks suggest other good links to complement mine. :)
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Great project, Sayak. :)


Imho, it is perhaps important to create a glossary of upanishadic terminology as well, so that lay persons can easily understand the sanskrit terms given with clarity, without any confusion or error.

The terminology contains the basics to some extent, and if one can get the basics right, it will then be easy to cover the concepts given.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Great project, Sayak. :)


Imho, it is perhaps important to create a glossary of upanishadic terminology as well, so that lay persons can easily understand the sanskrit terms given with clarity, without any confusion or error.

The terminology contains the basics to some extent, and if one can get the basics right, it will then be easy to cover the concepts given.
If someone creates it, we can make it a sticky.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The principal Upanishads have gotten the most votes. So I am launching the book discussion on it in this thread.

A useful source.
Holy Upanishads

I thought we should begin with Katha Upanishad, as it's quite popular and compact. What do you folks think?

Here is a source for classical commentary.
The Katha Upanishad with Shankara’s Commentary

Other sources welcome. :)
Katha Upanisad Part 1 Chapter 1

Holy Upanishads: Katha Upanishad

Kathopanishad English Translation - Katha Upanishad Bhashya by Adi Shankaracharya


Sankaracharya commentary.

The wisdom library link is down currently. Until it comes back up, this may be useful.
Hinduism EBooks: Principal Upanishads with Shankara Bhashya - English Translation - 5 Volumes

Please read through the 1st chapter and share your thoughts and comments. Tentative discussion period 1 week. But can be extended.

:)
 

Srivijaya

Active Member
Seems a fairly straightforward exposition of determination and renunciation. The true seeker is not beguiled with desirable things of this world but there are some interesting points raised in it.
I'm looking forward to a more in-depth analysis of this chapter from the more scholarly members.

I have a question regarding the fire sacrifice. Could it also be regarded as the inner fire, tummo? It is described as leading to heaven which could mean the highest chakra? I have more queries but I'll see what others put up as they may be addressed in any case.
 
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ajay0

Well-Known Member
If someone creates it, we can make it a sticky.

There are sanskrit dictionaries and glossaries online containing upanishadic terminology from which the required info can be put here . At the pace of a chapter a week, I think we can easily handle it.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Katha Chapter 1 Part 1:

Reflections

Nachiketas is portrayed as a young boy with lot of conscience and faith. Seeing that his father, while performing a ritual where all possessions should be given away, is actually giving away useless and old cows. Chagrined that such hypocritical giving in a ritual where one is supposed to give everything away would cause his father to enter "joyless" realms after death, Nachiketas asks his father to whom he is giving him... son being the most precious possession.

Two things stand out here for me. First is the timeless tendency of rituals becoming mere formality and done just out of convention in a "comfortable" way instead of in the spirit behind the ritual. The question of whether such soulless mechanical performance is ever going to be of any use remains relevant today. The second is can one truly do what seems literally required. Yes, the ritual calls to give up everything. But can one truly give up everything? If not, how can such a Yajna be practically performed? These are the questions that come to mind.


To be continued.
:)
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Katha Chapter 1 Part 1:

Reflections

Nachiketas is portrayed as a young boy with lot of conscience and faith. Seeing that his father, while performing a ritual where all possessions should be given away, is actually giving away useless and old cows. Chagrined that such hypocritical giving in a ritual where one is supposed to give everything away would cause his father to enter "joyless" realms after death, Nachiketas asks his father to whom he is giving him... son being the most precious possession.

Two things stand out here for me. First is the timeless tendency of rituals becoming mere formality and done just out of convention in a "comfortable" way instead of in the spirit behind the ritual. The question of whether such soulless mechanical performance is ever going to be of any use remains relevant today. The second is can one truly do what seems literally required. Yes, the ritual calls to give up everything. But can one truly give up everything? If not, how can such a Yajna be practically performed? These are the questions that come to mind.


To be continued.
:)
Continued...
As Nachiketas waits to meet Death is His hall, his reflection about death, mortality and the cycle of life-death-rebirth is very lyrical:-

Among many (yet to die) I am the first;
or among many(past and future) I am the middlemost.
But certainly I am never the last (who shall meet death).
What purpose of the King of Death will my father serve today
by thus giving me away to him?

Look back and see how it was
with those who came before us
and observe how it is
with those who are now with us.
A mortal ripens like corn
and like corn he springs up again.


It is this realization of the cycle of Samsara that motivates his questions to Death later.

It is important to note in this point that the Lord of Death (Yama) is in fact the first mortal, the first High King of all mortals, and the first time gain Heaven after dying. He was made the ruler of Death and the judge of Men for his great uprightness and moral principles. Thus he is also Dharma, the God of Justice and Righteousness. Here Rig-Vedic hymn 10.14 is illuminating.

1. To the one who has departed along the great slopes, having spied out the
path for many, son of Vivasvant, unifier of the peoples—to Yama the king show favor with oblation.

2. Yama first found the way for us: this pasture-land is not to be taken away.
(The way) on which our ancient forefathers departed, along that (do)
those who have since been born (follow) along their own paths.

3. Mātalī having been strengthened along with the poets, Yama with the
Aṅgirases, Brhaspati with the versifiers,
both those whom the gods strengthen and who strengthen the gods—
the ones [=gods] become exhilarated on (the cry) “svāhā,” the others
[=forefathers] on “svadhā.”

4. This strewn grass here, Yama—just sit here on it, in concord with the
Aṅgirases, our forefathers. Let mantras pronounced by poets convey you hither. Become exhilarated on this oblation, o king.


Subsequently the dead person is exhorted to follow the same path that Yama found, to the great realm of ancestors where Lord Yama rules. There the spirit of the dead person will be re-clothed in his now perfected body and Yama will provide him with food, water, rest and all that one desires. Till the time of rebirth.


This is the context in which Nachiketa thinks about Death and reflects on it during his journey. Thought this would prove useful as the mythology of death is very different in Hinduism as compared to Abrahamic religions.

:)
 

Srivijaya

Active Member
The following is interesting:
Yama said: O Brahmin, salutations to you! You are a venerable guest and have dwelt in my house three nights without eating; therefore choose now three boons, one for each night, O Brahmin! May all be well with me!

then:

After having seen you freed from the jaws of death, he will sleep peacefully at night and bear no anger against you.

then:

He who has performed three times this Nachiketa sacrifice, having been instructed by the three and also has performed his three duties, overcomes birth and death. Having known this Fire born of Brahman, omniscient, luminous and adorable and realised it, he attains supreme peace.

18
He who, having known the three, has performed three times the Nachiketa sacrifice, throws off, even here, the chains of death, overcomes grief and rejoices in Heaven.
So Nachiketa spends three nights in the house of death and his father will be pleased to see him return from the jaws of death. Nachiketa has undergone a profound experience and the number 3 is also reflected in the "Nachiketa sacrifice". This looks like a yogic experience which releases the seeker from death.

What do you guys reckon?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
"Whoever performs three times this sacrifice of Nachiketas fire and has been united with the three (father, mother and teacher) and has performed the three duties (study, sacrifice and alms-giving) overcomes birth and death. When he has understood this adorable bright, the omniscient fire born of Brahman and realized him, then he obtains everlasting peace."
meditation and spiritual growth » Blog Archive » Advice from the Lord of Death, on how best to live (Katha Upanishad)

"Having performed the Nachiketa sacrifice at the worldly (external), heavenly (internal) and mental (absolute) plane, having performed the three duties (charity, compassion and wisdom), the yogi escapes from rebirth. Having known this fire (the living flames of the mental fire of Brahman), he becomes as nothing before God and God comes face to face with God."
The Dark Prophecy of "nemesis"
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
"Whoever performs three times this sacrifice of Nachiketas fire and has been united with the three (father, mother and teacher) and has performed the three duties (study, sacrifice and alms-giving) overcomes birth and death. When he has understood this adorable bright, the omniscient fire born of Brahman and realized him, then he obtains everlasting peace."
meditation and spiritual growth » Blog Archive » Advice from the Lord of Death, on how best to live (Katha Upanishad)

"Having performed the Nachiketa sacrifice at the worldly (external), heavenly (internal) and mental (absolute) plane, having performed the three duties (charity, compassion and wisdom), the yogi escapes from rebirth. Having known this fire (the living flames of the mental fire of Brahman), he becomes as nothing before God and God comes face to face with God."
The Dark Prophecy of "nemesis"
What is this crazy book you quoted from?!
 

Srivijaya

Active Member
"Whoever performs three times this sacrifice of Nachiketas fire and has been united with the three (father, mother and teacher) and has performed the three duties (study, sacrifice and alms-giving) overcomes birth and death. When he has understood this adorable bright, the omniscient fire born of Brahman and realized him, then he obtains everlasting peace."
The thing I find interesting here is that this second boon is not in itself enough. Nachiketa asks 3 times for the third boon (that number again). I wonder if the three fires purify the three re-births; lower, human and celestial but Nachiketa wishes to go beyond even these?
 

Srivijaya

Active Member
Nachiketa fire is to understand Brahman. Few are able to light Nachiketa fire.
But why wasn't he content with that? I'd be more than pleased but he really wanted that third boon and wouldn't even let Yama buy him off with Celestial Maidens and Chariots (which would nowadays be some kind of top-notch super car I guess).
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
But why wasn't he content with that? I'd be more than pleased but he really wanted that third boon and wouldn't even let Yama buy him off with Celestial Maidens and Chariots (which would nowadays be some kind of top-notch super car I guess).
In that case, he would not have been remembered by millions of people three thousand or more years after his death. Do we remember the Maharajas who had Silver Ghosts?

"But Nachiketa argues that all worldly treasures and heavenly pleasures come to an end sooner or later. If not day after, after hundred years. These are not permanent means of enjoyment. He insists to get the ultimate knowledge of Self, '' O Lord of Death, you have promised me the third boon''."
NACHIKETA'S CONVERSATION WITH LORD YAMA
No. No. The book you linked says that North America is going to be destroyed by meteor strike! :eek:
Checked the links. They are OK. Perhaps you clicked something else.
 
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