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Boeing 737 MAX

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I disagree, & will leave certification debates to manufacturers & the FAA.

Well, the FAA is just a tool, and has long been purchased by the highest bidder.

And since all the really big players in the USA, either went under, or were purchased by the one that's left?

It surprises me not in the least that the FAA and the top of Boeing speak the same.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
You haven't been paying attention.
While I've said we've too much regulation,
I've often advocated particular regulation...
...the useful kind.

So sorry, I seemed to have missed the second bit. Likely because sensible attitude about regulations is so.... uncommon. :)

(among any side.... )
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So sorry, I seemed to have missed the second bit. Likely because sensible attitude about regulations is so.... uncommon. :)

(among any side.... )
Watch for it.
Example....
I've advocated for licensing personal representatives for trusts (aka executors).
It's appropriate where wielding great power, with great consequences which
cannot be adequately addressed in tort.

Btw, Airbus has experienced roller coaster rides (Quantas flight 72).
It was an Airbus 330-303. But it was a software issue which gave a false angle of attack.
Can't blame that one on the FAA.
Btw, the planes weren't grounded, & this wasn't the first or last such incident.
No crashes, but there were almost-crashes, & many injuries from a high G dive.
They never discovered the root cause, but did rewrite software to prevent the problem.
(I just ran across this issue.)
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
As hydraulics use pressure and liquid combined with raw strength of the user to move parts. Power can augment those systems making it easier but is not required.
I just ran across an example of a plane which lost all 3 of its redundant hydraulic systems.
United Airlines Flight 232 - Wikipedia
Reading this article, one can see that loss of hydraulics meant total loss of flight control
surfaces, despite the fact that mechanical controls were still connected as before.
Excerpted....
The various gauges for all three hydraulic systems were registering zero.[4] The three hydraulic systems were separate, so that failure of any one of them would leave the crew with full control, but lines for all three systems shared the same narrow passage through the tail where the engine debris had penetrated, and thus control surfaces were inoperative.[1] The crew contacted United maintenance personnel via radio, but were told that, as a total loss of hydraulics on the DC-10 was considered "virtually impossible", there were no established procedures for such an event.[1]

The plane was tending to pull right, and slowly oscillated vertically in a phugoid cycle – characteristic of planes in which control surface command is lost. With each iteration of the cycle, the aircraft lost approximately 1,500 feet (460 m) of altitude. On learning that Fitch, an experienced United Airlines captain and DC-10 flight instructor, was among the passengers, the crew called him into the cockpit for assistance.[4]

Haynes asked Fitch to observe the ailerons through the passenger cabin windows to see if control inputs were having any effect.[4] Fitch reported back that the ailerons were not moving at all. Nonetheless, the crew continued to manipulate their control columns for the remainder of the flight, hoping for at least some effect. Haynes then asked Fitch to take over control of the throttles so that Haynes could concentrate on his control column. With one throttle in each hand, Fitch was able to mitigate the phugoid cycle and make rough steering adjustments.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I just ran across an example of a plane which lost all 3 of its redundant hydraulic systems.
United Airlines Flight 232 - Wikipedia
Reading this article, one can see that loss of hydraulics meant total loss of flight control
surfaces, despite the fact that mechanical controls were still connected as before.
Excerpted....
The various gauges for all three hydraulic systems were registering zero.[4] The three hydraulic systems were separate, so that failure of any one of them would leave the crew with full control, but lines for all three systems shared the same narrow passage through the tail where the engine debris had penetrated, and thus control surfaces were inoperative.[1] The crew contacted United maintenance personnel via radio, but were told that, as a total loss of hydraulics on the DC-10 was considered "virtually impossible", there were no established procedures for such an event.[1]

The plane was tending to pull right, and slowly oscillated vertically in a phugoid cycle – characteristic of planes in which control surface command is lost. With each iteration of the cycle, the aircraft lost approximately 1,500 feet (460 m) of altitude. On learning that Fitch, an experienced United Airlines captain and DC-10 flight instructor, was among the passengers, the crew called him into the cockpit for assistance.[4]

Haynes asked Fitch to observe the ailerons through the passenger cabin windows to see if control inputs were having any effect.[4] Fitch reported back that the ailerons were not moving at all. Nonetheless, the crew continued to manipulate their control columns for the remainder of the flight, hoping for at least some effect. Haynes then asked Fitch to take over control of the throttles so that Haynes could concentrate on his control column. With one throttle in each hand, Fitch was able to mitigate the phugoid cycle and make rough steering adjustments.

There truly is no substitute for experience and a calm head in a crisis.
 
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