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Black lives matter co-founder says they are trained Marxists.

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Competition is similar in this regard, ie, there is also cooperation.
We have unnatural and destructive competition. We are social animals of cooperation, yet we have been forced into a system of brutal competition who's outcome is more often determined by luck that anything else.
Actually, many people (including even fans of capitalism) fail utterly
to
understand how it works as a system. The assumption of rational
behavior is incomplete. There is also irrational behavior, which is
now fashionable to study in modern economic theory, but was also
implicitly fundamental from its inception, eg, wrong decisions resulting
in companies failing.
This rational behaviors is included as a part of Capitalism and how people will behave. Were told people will act on logical interests, but they don't.
This is wrong. It has great predictive power, but it is not deterministic.
One must consider many other factors too. Capitalism is far more
complex than your typical undergraduate micro & macro economics
classes, which study only simplistic emergent properties.
It has none of that. People still shop where at places where their values are violated, or they don't care, they don't know all the details of a company, or they may not have a choice. It also does fail in predicting money as a motivator. Women aren't motivated by it given they often go in lower paying jobs, and even with men their interests tend to be much more complicated that simply wanting to earn more money.
This isn't a failing. It's just not part of the system. Think of
capitalism as being like atheism, ie,
it's not about morality,
which is entirely separate. But it doesn't mean that either
capitalists or atheists can be without morals...no matter
what the commies or fundies say.
This is another aspect of capitalism where I can cite authors, proponents, and advocates. It goes along with the idea of a crisis of the commons.
This is where government & social pressure come into play.
We are told, by capitalists, we must not have public property because that will lead to a crisis of the commons. But all privatizing the property has done is squandered at rates far faster than at any point in our species history.
(I'd say that USSR,
N Korea, Cuba, & Mao's PRC are, but fans of socialism,
communism, & Marxism don't accept them as examples.)
They arent examples of a Marxist society. If we removed labels and had check lists, those societies wouldn't meet the list for Marxism.
So we're left with mere prognostications that their theoretical
construct with unstated premises will be superior.
The United States of America?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We have unnatural and destructive competition. We are social animals of cooperation, yet we have been forced into a system of brutal competition who's outcome is more often determined by luck that anything else.

This rational behaviors is included as a part of Capitalism and how people will behave. Were told people will act on logical interests, but they don't.

It has none of that. People still shop where at places where their values are violated, or they don't care, they don't know all the details of a company, or they may not have a choice. It also does fail in predicting money as a motivator. Women aren't motivated by it given they often go in lower paying jobs, and even with men their interests tend to be much more complicated that simply wanting to earn more money.

This is another aspect of capitalism where I can cite authors, proponents, and advocates. It goes along with the idea of a crisis of the commons.

We are told, by capitalists, we must not have public property because that will lead to a crisis of the commons. But all privatizing the property has done is squandered at rates far faster than at any point in our species history.

They arent examples of a Marxist society. If we removed labels and had check lists, those societies wouldn't meet the list for Marxism.

The United States of America?
All the criticism of capitalism notwithstanding,
its foes have yet to propose a better alternative.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
All the criticism of capital notwithstanding,
its foes have yet to propose a better alternative.
There's no question who's the authority on communism is. It's not the idealists serving out the Kool-Aid. That's for certain.

Those that put it in actual practice, USSR, communist China, North Korea, Vietnam......

The outcomes Marxism produces, will always end up like that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
There's no question who's the authority on communism is. It's not the idealists serving out the Kool-Aid. That's for certain.

Those that put it in actual practice, USSR, communist China, North Korea, Vietnam......

The outcomes Marxism produces, will always end up like that.
But they keep saying that those countries aren't communist, marxist, or socialist.
So those failed examples aren't even examples.
They have no examples at all, yet they're convinced this
as yet impossible to implement system will be utopia.
And they don't face any of the theoretical shortcomings.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
And yet, our system has showed durability by preventing
Trump from blossoming as you-know-who incarnate.
Also, the people have not followed him "without question".
There have been questions....challenges even.
And lo !!!!
In half a year, the people will vote on giving him a 2nd
term or the boot. So I find claims that Ameristan has
turned into a fascist state to be histriobolic (a neologism).
There's a difference between "it can't happen here" and "it's highly unlikely to happen here" - I vote the latter.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
But they keep saying that those countries aren't communist, marxist, or socialist.
So those failed examples aren't even examples.
They have no examples at all, yet they're convinced this
as yet impossible to implement system will be utopia.
And they don't face any of the theoretical shortcomings.
I'm a fan of Northern European social democracy. (And yes it's not perfect - what else is new).

So it's not either or but a set of choices.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The foot soldiers do not need to be Marxist if they are kept in the dark.

That is easy to do when educated people have also been convinced as they have.
I would write the exact same thing but with the right wing being the perps.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
There's no question who's the authority on communism is.
Feel free to be more specific.
Like names and dates and quotes and such.

I remember learning about Jesus from a Soviet. Soviet learned in school about how Jesus was an ancient, primitive, communist. Jesus was far ahead of His time, so the elitists and imperialists killed Him.

At first, I was kinda appalled. I grew up in white America in the sixties and seventies. But, when I looked at the reality I realized that he was correct. Jesus's Message was far more similar to Communist teachings than Christian Capitalist teachings.

Far.
Far.
More similar.
Tom
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
But they keep saying that those countries aren't communist, marxist, or socialist.
So those failed examples aren't even examples.
They have no examples at all, yet they're convinced this
as yet impossible to implement system will be utopia.
And they don't face any of the theoretical shortcomings.

You noticed that too. People like that never can accept the real world results of Marxist Kool-Aid so they just keep on pretending it isn't. ;0)
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Feel free to be more specific.
Like names and dates and quotes and such.

I remember learning about Jesus from a Soviet. Soviet learned in school about how Jesus was an ancient, primitive, communist. Jesus was far ahead of His time, so the elitists and imperialists killed Him.

At first, I was kinda appalled. I grew up in white America in the sixties and seventies. But, when I looked at the reality I realized that he was correct. Jesus's Message was far more similar to Communist teachings than Christian Capitalist teachings.

Far.
Far.
More similar.
Tom
That's weird. I also had a roommate who came from the Soviet USSR during my job training and his account was quite different. Go figure.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Marxists are trained? Where do they intern?
exterior-of-the-marx-brothers-cafecc81-the-home-on-third-avenue-in-downtown-anchorage-alaska-dates-to-1916-and-was-one-of-three-identical-houses-built-for-the-local-management-of-the.jpg
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I asked him how life was like in the Soviet Union at the height of Communism and if it was as bad as people say. Let's just say it wasn't for him which is why he came to the states.
Oh, okay. It was the personal experience of one person.

Something you might consider is checking out the books and history of Paul Robeson. He was a talented and ambitious black man in 20th century USA. The vaunted "freedom" of this country didn't apply to black people back then. Even the Constitution didn't apply. Good White Christian Conservative folks destroyed his life because he found the USSR better than the USA.
But the USA wasn't that different from Russia.
Tom
 
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