Black Holes

[1robin]

in a field of nothing.....the first motion is as random as it gets
(in the beginning there would be no line drawn for random....
and intention can dealt at at whim)

but of course.....to say I AM!.....you might want a creation to show for it

In a field of nothing there is nothing to move, no where to move it to, and no one to start it moving. See Aquinas' 5 ways concerning the prime mover.

Christianity does not start with a field of nothing, science does. Science says matter, space, and time began to exist a finite time kin the past. They run out of explanations before they have explained everything. Christianity start with an uncaused first cause of everything else, not a field of nothing. Christian can explain the existence of things in motion. Christianity does not have a beginning of something from nothing, it has a something that created everything. What he created isn't random, isn't a field of nothing, and accounts for all motion.

 

[Thief]

In a field of nothing there is nothing to move, no where to move it to, and no one to start it moving. See Aquinas' 5 ways concerning the prime mover.

Christianity does not start with a field of nothing, science does. Science says matter, space, and time began to exist a finite time kin the past. They run out of explanations before they have explained everything. Christianity start with an uncaused first cause of everything else, not a field of nothing. Christian can explain the existence of things in motion. Christianity does not have a beginning of something from nothing, it has a something that created everything. What he created isn't random, isn't a field of nothing, and accounts for all motion.

and the ...void ....was what?.
Genesis

 

[1robin]

and the ...void ....was what?.
Genesis

Formless. It would be something like putting different size rocks, mud, sand, and water into a clear bucket and shake it up. It would appear to be uniform formlessness. Give it a few hours or days and hydrological sorting would render the substances into distinct layers. Void or formless is a good way to describe the early universe. If you read up on big bang cosmology the early universe was basically a big cloud of gas.

However none of this has anything to do with infinity.

 

[Thief]

Formless. It would be something like putting different size rocks, mud, sand, and water into a clear bucket and shake it up. It would appear to be uniform formlessness. Give it a few hours or days and hydrological sorting would render the substances into distinct layers. Void or formless is a good way to describe the early universe. If you read up on big bang cosmology the early universe was basically a big cloud of gas.

However none of this has anything to do with infinity.

and the void was not......infinite?

 

[1robin]

and the void was not......infinite?

No, the universe has never been or ever will be infinite.

 

[Thief]

No, the universe has never been or ever will be infinite.

seems to observation....the universe is expanding
and gaining speed as it does

into the void

into infinity

 

[Twilight Hue]

.....the universe has never been or ever will be infinite.

The known universe anyways.

 

[1robin]

seems to observation....the universe is expanding
and gaining speed as it does

into the void

into infinity

That is called an unbounded finite, not an infinite. No matter when you take a snap shot of the universe it will still only be finite in size. If you waited long enough there would be nothing to photograph. Unless God exists, the universe will expand so much that no molecule will be visible from another, but it will still be finite.

 

[1robin]

The known universe anyways.

Are you making an argument against my own, based on what you freely admit we don't know? If so I demand you use a blurry photo of big foot as your avatar.

 

[columbus]

If so I demand you use a blurry photo of big foot as your avatar.

Or he could use a pic of a blue eyed Jesus with fabulous light brown hair.

Tom

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are you making an argument against my own, based on what you freely admit we don't know? If so I demand you use a blurry photo of big foot as your avatar.

Just pointing out the reality of our limitations at present.

 

[Thief]

That is called an unbounded finite, not an infinite. No matter when you take a snap shot of the universe it will still only be finite in size. If you waited long enough there would be nothing to photograph. Unless God exists, the universe will expand so much that no molecule will be visible from another, but it will still be finite.

and so the expansion continues.....infinitely

 

[1robin]

Just pointing out the reality of our limitations at present.

What we know is the only thing we can draw any conclusions from? We should not draw conclusions from the unknown or unknowable.

 

[1robin]

and so the expansion continues.....infinitely

I have already explained this for you. Your describing what is called a potential unbounded finite, not an infinite. At no time will the universe reach infinite age.

 

[Thief]

I have already explained this for you. Your describing what is called a potential unbounded finite, not an infinite. At no time will the universe reach infinite age.

all motion will stop?

I think not

 

[1robin]

all motion will stop?

I think not

I did not suggest otherwise. Something that began to move, and will always be in motion, is an unbounded finite not an infinite. That is the last time I will point out that distinction.

 

[Thief]

I did not suggest otherwise. Something that began to move, and will always be in motion, is an unbounded finite not an infinite. That is the last time I will point out that distinction.

hummmmmm

unbounded.....finite

a contradiction in terms

 

[Super Universe]

a little more than another thread.....

Can God create a black hole so deep He can't get out of it?

Can a black hole be.....the bottomless pit?

and wasn't the primordial singularity.....such an item?

Can God create a black hole so deep that He can't get out of it? Yes, but it doesn't have to be a black hole. It could be anything. If God says this empty soda can will contain me or a piece of paper or a single atom, then it will.

Can a black hole be a bottomless pit? Black holes are not bottomless, they are a sphere of tightly compacted particles.

Wasn't the primordial singularity a bottomless black hole? No, there was no big bang. Quantum particles can and do pop into existence and pop out of existence again. Science just doesn't understand how it can be turned on to create nebula's in space that is expanding and accelerating.

 

[Thief]

Can God create a black hole so deep that He can't get out of it? Yes, but it doesn't have to be a black hole. It could be anything. If God says this empty soda can will contain me or a piece of paper or a single atom, then it will.

Can a black hole be a bottomless pit? Black holes are not bottomless, they are a sphere of tightly compacted particles.

Wasn't the primordial singularity a bottomless black hole? No, there was no big bang. Quantum particles can and do pop into existence and pop out of existence again. Science just doesn't understand how it can be turned on to create nebula's in space that is expanding and accelerating.

science doesn't know?

and all the movement we see when we look up is expanding.....and gaining speed
science!

if you reverse all motion it returns to a primordial singularity
of calculation.....beyond numbers
science!

and for every motion.....something caused it

Spirit first

now ask me what caused God

 

[LuisDantas]

maybe you could disprove God....before making denials

That is the opposite of a responsible stance, you know.