Bigotry and Bias prehaps the problem is your world view.

[bobhikes]

3 real scenarios.

I am a technician I have to work with operator's on a day basis, I try to be very friendly and legitimately take an interest in other's life. I find people extremely interesting.

1) Younger I was working at a large company. A female there was an immigrant from Lithuanian. My Grandfather was from Lithuanian we got along well. Everyone there knew I was married, she approach me and offered to be my girl friend knowing I had a wife. When I turned her down politely she never spoke to me again. Do I need to change who I am?

2) At my current job most of the people speak another language a Nigerian woman started working there. I was amazed at how good her English was only to find out Nigerians all speak english. She had a problem where she lost her car. The person that was supposed to take her to lunch never showed. I took her to lunch and paid. The guys at work start asking me if I was going to do something with her. I was shocked. She and I are still friendly but I am now subconscious of the others, I do not need rumors.

3)At my current job another women has a daughter about the same age as my son's there is a language barrier but I speak some. She started acting weird around me and I noticed but didn't put it together. At one point she asked me why I spoke her language was is friends, I said no it was my wife. Her eyes dropped and she walked away. I realized then that she had other interests for me. Fortunately she got over it and we are still friendly.

4) Suppose I'm a gay man in a bar and a women comes up to me. We share stories and have a good time together we go out for coffee or other friendly things a few times. After the 3rd date she declares feelings for me, I advise her that I am only seeking friendship and that I am gay, does she have the right to get mad or try and force me to be something I am not.

My personal views are deep and mine, if I don't enforce them on you and am still friendly with you knowing your views are different from mine, why am I the bigot? In debate on the RF if I don't share your views it seems like a lot of people take it personally and declare I am the bigot. To make progress for your issues I would suggest that you don't focus on the personal issue.

 

[icehorse]

doesn't sound like bigotry to me. but perhaps your personal style is easily misinterpreted as flirting?

 

[bobhikes]

doesn't sound like bigotry to me. but perhaps your personal style is easily misinterpreted as flirting?

On the RF the problems arise with a few.

Abortion, I am personally against but I support pro-choice because I know the choice isn't mine though I would discourge and debate against abortion.

Marriage, I believe marriage to be unnecessary for all except people that want to have children but support all civil marriages if the government is going to issue them and support religious rights in marriage.

Trans conversion, I believe all humans should use what they are given and not try to change nature, I have a real problem with kids converting but I support the trans cause after it is done.

 

[BSM1]

3 real scenarios.

I am a technician I have to work with operator's on a day basis, I try to be very friendly and legitimately take an interest in other's life. I find people extremely interesting.

1) Younger I was working at a large company. A female there was an immigrant from Lithuanian. My Grandfather was from Lithuanian we got along well. Everyone there knew I was married, she approach me and offered to be my girl friend knowing I had a wife. When I turned her down politely she never spoke to me again. Do I need to change who I am?

2) At my current job most of the people speak another language a Nigerian woman started working there. I was amazed at how good her English was only to find out Nigerians all speak english. She had a problem where she lost her car. The person that was supposed to take her to lunch never showed. I took her to lunch and paid. The guys at work start asking me if I was going to do something with her. I was shocked. She and I are still friendly but I am now subconscious of the others, I do not need rumors.

3)At my current job another women has a daughter about the same age as my son's there is a language barrier but I speak some. She started acting weird around me and I noticed but didn't put it together. At one point she asked me why I spoke her language was is friends, I said no it was my wife. Her eyes dropped and she walked away. I realized then that she had other interests for me. Fortunately she got over it and we are still friendly.

4) Suppose I'm a gay man in a bar and a women comes up to me. We share stories and have a good time together we go out for coffee or other friendly things a few times. After the 3rd date she declares feelings for me, I advise her that I am only seeking friendship and that I am gay, does she have the right to get mad or try and force me to be something I am not.

My personal views are deep and mine, if I don't enforce them on you and am still friendly with you knowing your views are different from mine, why am I the bigot? In debate on the RF if I don't share your views it seems like a lot of people take it personally and declare I am the bigot. To make progress for your issues I would suggest that you don't focus on the personal issue.

My first take on your post is that you must be either a handsome and/or a silver tongued devil...I mean that in a good way, of course.

 

[bobhikes]

My first take on your post is that you must be either a handsome and/or a silver tongued devil...I mean that in a good way, of course.

Neither but thanks. Its just a numbers game 53 years always working with large groups of people.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I believe all humans should use what they are given and not try to change nature

I had a breast reduction in highschool because what I was given naturally was giving me back and shoulder pain, was going to make it harder to detect breast cancer when I got older, and was preventing me from doing something I really enjoyed (competitive swim.)
So I went with the unnatural and was way better for it.

I view trans in similar light. Gender dysphoria causes huge amounts of depression and anxiety and if treatment with sex reassignment surgery is the thing that helps them then I am happy for them.

 

[bobhikes]

I had a breast reduction in highschool because what I was given naturally was giving me back and shoulder pain, was going to make it harder to detect breast cancer when I got older, and was preventing me from doing something I really enjoyed (competitive swim.)
So I went with the unnatural and was way better for it.

I view trans in similar light. Gender dysphoria causes huge amounts of depression and anxiety and if treatment with sex reassignment surgery is the thing that helps them then I am happy for them.

And I am happy for you as it was your choice and it helped you, that doesn't mean it would be mine. My point is that it should not be an issue for others if my choice would have been different. Especially if I do nothing to stop your ability to make the choice.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

And I am happy for you as it was your choice and it helped you, that doesn't mean it would be mine. My point is that it should not be an issue for others if my choice would have been different. Especially if I do nothing to stop your ability to make the choice.

I can agree with that. Though I think saying 'I wouldn't stop you but I think that was wrong of you to do' can still be seen as discouteous. As it's taking the judgement of them approach instead of the judgement of self approach. But that is of way less concern to me than the 'trying to stop you' thing which much more directly impacts.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Trans conversion, I believe all humans should use what they are given and not try to change nature, I have a real problem with kids converting but I support the trans cause after it is done.

Do you forego modern medicine? Taking medication and surgery are all going against "nature". If you get cancer, no chemo or radiation for you.

Kids don't "convert". They're allowed to live socially as their preferred gender and then get on puberty blockers. They're not allowed to have cross-sex hormones until they're 16 or so. They have plenty of time to decide if it's right for them.

 

[bobhikes]

I can agree with that. Though I think saying 'I wouldn't stop you but I think that was wrong of you to do' can still be seen as discouteous. As it's taking the judgement of them approach instead of the judgement of self approach. But that is of way less concern to me than the 'trying to stop you' thing which much more directly impacts.

But have to me true to yourself. I can only make personal choices, and I may not be able to understand another's choice but I can value their opinion. Other than debate for the purpose of debate I would never offer an unsolicited opinion unless it was a loved one and I felt they were in danger. In debate I am going to push my personal views with either fact or marked as opinion.

 

[bobhikes]

Do you forego modern medicine? Taking medication and surgery are all going against "nature". If you get cancer, no chemo or radiation for you.

Kids don't "convert". They're allowed to live socially as their preferred gender and then get on puberty blockers. They're not allowed to have cross-sex hormones until they're 16 or so. They have plenty of time to decide if it's right for them.

Am I allowed to say yes? Is that a valid opinion? There are people that don't. For me I do put off medicine and surgery as long as I can. I need Knee surgery and hernia surgery right now but I deal with it. Yes I take pain killers occasionally to help. As to Cancer I not sure I don't have it but life is hard and depending on the options I might forgo it. When I was 16 I tore my ligaments in my knee, I loved football and as a freshman played varsity. The doctor at the time told me the surgery was 50/50 my parents said they would pay. I choose not to have it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Am I allowed to say yes? Is that a valid opinion? There are people that don't. For me I do put off medicine and surgery as long as I can. I need Knee surgery and hernia surgery right now but I deal with it. Yes I take pain killers occasionally to help. As to Cancer I not sure I don't have it but life is hard and depending on the options I might forgo it. When I was 16 I tore my ligaments in my knee, I loved football and as a freshman played varsity. The doctor at the time told me the surgery was 50/50 my parents said they would pay. I choose not to have it.

You can do what you please with your body. I just hope you make informed choices.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I believe all humans should use what they are given and not try to change nature

I'm rather very fond of my glasses, and am saving up for lasik. My knee, which has had four surgeries including having cadaver tissue to replace "what I was given."
I also like painting my nails, and styling my hair with a straightener and styling it to a have a sheen that has many people complimenting my hair.
Cutting our nails is pretty nice, as is the ability to remove a burst appendix. Shoes are pretty nice, and I like the supplements to my immune system that made things like polio non-existent in my childhood.

 

[bobhikes]

I'm rather very fond of my glasses, and am saving up for lasik. My knee, which has had four surgeries including having cadaver tissue to replace "what I was given."
I also like painting my nails, and styling my hair with a straightener and styling it to a have a sheen that has many people complimenting my hair.
Cutting our nails is pretty nice, as is the ability to remove a burst appendix. Shoes are pretty nice, and I like the supplements to my immune system that made things like polio non-existent in my childhood.

Each is entitled to there beliefs I will not discredit or belittle yours all I ask is the same. When it comes to personal decisions there is no need to attack just a need for respect.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Each is entitled to there beliefs I will not discredit or belittle yours all I ask is the same.

This "natural" position, it is a position I seek to discredit because it's really only ever applied to things we don't like, as we have no qualms in areas of our own lives where things are blatantly unnatural. And not just in regards to gender dysphoria. There have been many times on RF when some is asked to get off their computer and the internet for having proclaimed they don't like "unnatural" things. Homosexuality is often something dismissed as "unnatural." But doing things that are "unnatural" has driven our very evolution.

 

[bobhikes]

This "natural" position, it is a position I seek to discredit because it's really only ever applied to things we don't like, as we have no qualms in areas of our own lives where things are blatantly unnatural. And not just in regards to gender dysphoria. There have been many times on RF when some is asked to get off their computer and the internet for having proclaimed they don't like "unnatural" things. Homosexuality is often something dismissed as "unnatural." But doing things that are "unnatural" has driven our very evolution.

So that you know who you are dealing with I have argued with many people that we are worse off today than the first cavemen that walked this earth. Where many see technological advancements I see destruction, depression and death. This is my natural position even though I use and like many of the technological advances but I understand there cost and value.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Do you forego modern medicine? Taking medication and surgery are all going against "nature". If you get cancer, no chemo or radiation for you.

Kids don't "convert". They're allowed to live socially as their preferred gender and then get on puberty blockers. They're not allowed to have cross-sex hormones until they're 16 or so. They have plenty of time to decide if it's right for them.

Cancer is an abnormality in the cells how is getting rid of an abnormality that causes death going against nature? That is stupid logic.