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Featured Big Bounce ( no Bang )- Qur'an says ::The fate of the universe.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Ruh, Apr 23, 2020.

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  1. Ruh

    Ruh Member

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    Qur’an has the following to say about the beginning of the universe:

    21:30 Do not those who disbelieve see that the skies and the earth were a single entity? Then WE parted them ……

    So the universe started from a primordial singularity and they parted . But the verse didn’t mention how they were parted. We have the answer from the other verse of the Qur’an but from the same chapter. We have it at the end .

    And then we found this:

    51:47 And the sky WE constructed with force/strength and indeed WE are expanding it….

    Almighty GOD used a force ( !? ) and as a result the universe started to expand . Interesting here to mention that the original Arabic word of expanding (لموسعون) is in its Imperfect Verbal form (IV), meaning this expansion is happening now and will continue in future. Therefore an expanding universe is confirmed.

    Meanwhile before going to the doom of the universe, Qur’an discussed so many other relevant topics concerning cosmology which I feel not to bring it up here to save time and space . Let us stick with the topic and finish it up.

    Now what is the fate of the universe? Big Crunch, Big Rip or Big Bounce? Here is what the Qur’an proposes:

    21:104 The day WE will fold the sky like folding of the page of books as WE began the first creation, We will repeat it – a promise upon US. Indeed WE shall do it.

    The verse proposes us :

    01- The universe is flat like a page. (WMAP Data !?)

    02- It will bounce back like rolling back of a page.

    03- The first creation started not with a Bang rather a Bounce.

    04- The same process will be repeated again to the creation of another new universe.

    Science didn’t reach to the established conclusions to some of the facts /theories/hypothesizes pertaining Big Bang and Big Bounce still but it is quite refreshing to notice that Qur’an has discussed them boldly 1400 years back .

    Ruh .
     
  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Who's WE?
     
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  3. Ruh

    Ruh Member

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    WE is a majestic plural referring to one person but in a respectful way . It is canonized in so many other languages . 'Nahnu/ نحن ' as WE is that type of majestic plural .

    Royal we - Wikipedia
     
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  4. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    I don't see this as a bold discussion of 'Big Bang' physics. It's very open to interpretation.
    I think you're seeing patterns where none exist; you're reading your own interpretation into the text..

    What "established conclusion" are you referring to?
     
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  5. Ruh

    Ruh Member

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    Read the original text from the Qur'an . It will testify I did't do any manipulation of the meanings .

    I denote 'no established conclusions' , if you mind to read again .
     
  6. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    All this talk of the Quran predicting universal bouncing, folding, and rolling back, feels like a stretch...
     
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  7. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    It comes across as linguistic pareidolia.
     
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  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    According to the ancient cultures, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, a living universal being who is all that exists, and in who, all that is, exists. A universe that exists in the two states of seemingly visible matter and invisible energy=anti-matter.

    “Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

    The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds would seem as an eternity, or but a moment in time.

    ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation are referred to in the book of Genesis as the “GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE.”

    The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles of endless rebirths that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

    Enoch the righteous, wrote that God created an eighth day also, so that it should be the first after his works, and it is a day eternal with neither hours, days, weeks, months or years, for all time is stuck together in one eon, etc, etc, and all who enter into the generation of the Light beings, are able to visit all those worlds that still exist in Space-Time, but not in our time.

    A series of worlds following one upon the other-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. This is the true resurrection in which all from the previous cycle of universal activity, who still have the judgmental war raging within them, are born again into the endless cycles of physical manifestation, or rebirths.
     
  9. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

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    One significant question is:
    Did ancient cultures really knew of anything else i cosmos besides the Milky Way and the Solar System? I don´t think so, and if someone read of "a beginning", this can only concern the creation of the Milky Way at the largest and NOT the entire Universe outside the Milky Way.
     
    #9 Native, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  10. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    The verse is referring to the sky, not the universe as the universe includes the earth, but if I remember correctly the word used for sky (was it Assama I forget) means what is opposite of the earth.

    Nonetheless let us hypothetically assume your misinterpretation is the true interpretation and the word used refers to the entire universe. This contradicts known science for we know that the universe is not flat like a page (for if it were so 2 dimensional it’s component parts such as the earth and yourself would have to be flat to fit within it).

    Fortunately modern science knows more about both the sky and the universe than the relatively primitive author of the Quran did, and is aware of the multidimensional nature of the universe.
     
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  11. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

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    I wouldn´t automatically describe ancient knowledge as primitive. It can just as well be modern humans who simply don´t understand the ancient myhto-cosmological language and symbolism and take this as being "primitive".
     
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  12. Agnostisch

    Agnostisch Egyptian Man

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    WE = Allah+Angels
     
  13. Agnostisch

    Agnostisch Egyptian Man

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    Perhaps knowing Arabic helps a lot in better understanding the Qur’anic expression, and verse meanings as was perceived at the time.
     
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  14. ManSinha

    ManSinha Well-Known Member

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    And here is a quote from the RigVeda - compiled arguably 3500 years ago - that still holds true

    ko addhā veda ka iha pra vocat kuta ājātā kuta iyaṃvisṛṣṭiḥ |
    arvāgh devā asya visarjanenāthā ko veda yataābabhūva ||
    iyaṃ visṛṣṭiryata ābabhūva yadi vā dadhe yadi vā na |
    yo asyādhyakṣaḥ parame vyoman so aṅgha veda yadi vā naveda ||



    6. Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
    The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
    7. He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
    Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.
     
  15. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    You are changing skies to mean what you want it to mean.

    FYI the Earth is part of the universe not separate from it. More so the Earth didn't exist for almost 10 billion years after the event. Yawn. Ergo it was never joined as the Earth didn't exist then. Try again son. Less copy/pasting from your apologist websites and more effort into understand the scientific concept you fail to use due to your ignorance of those concept.

    Again you are changing skies to mean what you want it to mean

    Again you are changing skies to mean what you want it to mean


    False conclusion made due to you changing words to mean what you want to mean. Low effort apologistics. Try again
     
    #15 Shad, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  16. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Flat universe is not about flat like a piece of paper.

    https://phys.org/news/2017-06-universe-flat-topology.html
     
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  17. Ruh

    Ruh Member

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    Thanks a lot for your best post in this thread .
     
  18. Ruh

    Ruh Member

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    And your example of linguistic pareidolia is ….. (IDK)
     
  19. Ruh

    Ruh Member

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    I am not so sure about the other ancient scriptures but in Qur'an the word سماء has quite a range of implications with the context . It can be used in denoting the whole universe to our visible sky ( atmosphere) etc.
     
  20. ManSinha

    ManSinha Well-Known Member

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    No it cannot - two different things - "visible sky" is not the same as "universe" - you are making a leap here
    The words kawn, alkun, and dunyana do not appear at all in the Qu'ran
     
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