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Biden and Islam in Schools

Yazata

Active Member
So what problem do you have with what he actually said?

That he wants the doctrines and tenets of Islam taught in schools (presumably state-funded public schools). His supporters would never tolerate that for a moment if it was a call for Christian beliefs and tenets being taught. The fact that the teacher is only teaching "about" the doctrines and tenets and not personally endorsing them wouldn't satisfy the militants who could be predicted to immediately file a lawsuit seeking to prohibit the school even teaching in a positive and sympathetic fashion about Christianity as a violation of the Constitution's Establishment clause.

As I wrote above, the distinction between 'education' and 'indoctrination' can be a fine line sometimes. I think that's precisely the kind of legal argument that the critics of teaching positively about Christianity in the public schools would take. And as a supporter of the principle of 'separation of church and state', I'm inclined to be sympathetic with that line of argument.

Another problem arises when it comes to choosing which tenets and doctrines actually characterize a religion. How much emphasis is the teacher going to place on the nature and role of Islamic law for example? There are obviously Muslims out there who believe that Islamic law comes direct from God, is unchangeable (they see that as a virtue), that it takes precedence over any secular law, and even that it is meant by God for all mankind. Would our public school religion teacher teach that? Or would he/she teach a bowdlerized version with all the less pleasant bits removed?

When deciding how to present a complex cultural tradition that plays such a fundamental role in people's lives, choices will have to be made about what to present and how to present it. Who is going to do that? On the basis of what? That's where ideology will start to sneak in if the purpose of the whole exercise isn't purely scholarly and is instead promoted as a mechanism to promote public acceptance of Islam.

Biden's use of the word "confessional faith" is troublesome. It's basically a less-perjorative synonym for 'fundamentalist'. As Wikipedia says, "Confessionalism, in a religious (and particularly Christian) sense, is a belief in the importance of full and unambiguous assent to the whole of a religious teaching. Confessionalists believe that differing interpretations or understandings, especially those in direct opposition to a held teaching, cannot be accommodated within a church communion."

Confessionalism (religion) - Wikipedia

I'm not sure if that's what Biden meant to convey, but I feel no need to try to mind-read him or to put more attractive words into his mouth that I think he should have said. I find what he did say problematic for the reasons given.
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
*** Mod Post ***

Just reminding everyone that this is in the 'Conservative Only' DIR.


No posting unless you identify as Conservative.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Christianity is not allowed in schools now.

And we have a Nitt- Witt (Biden) who wants to teach Islam in our schools!!!
My question was "Do you oppose teaching about religion in schools?"
You didn't answer.

Personally, I think religion should be taught about. It's a major factor in the human situation.

Here where I live, the problem is Christians. If the school doesn't teach what their denomination or belief system teaches, they don't want kids to be taught anything at all. It's Christians who object to teaching kids about religion, not atheists or Hindus or whatever.

So, I'm asking you again. Do you think schools should teach kids about religion?
Tom
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Not sure how many teachers of any faith can maintain a high degree of objectivity when it come to "teaching about" their beliefs.

Ahhh...now there's an interesting point. I think there is some validity to this.
I saw Christian teachers horribly butchering teaching about Christianity. God knows what they'd do if asked to teach about Islam.

I think it depends to what depth they are teaching theological belief concepts, or whether it's more just a generalised awareness of other religions.

[edit] I apologise, I hadn't been aware this was in a DIR. I'll bow out now, rather than embarrass myself further.[/edit]
 
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EsonauticSage

Between extremes
My complaint about Biden is that he seems to want something for Islam (that its fundamentals be taught in schools) that he or at least his supporters would never tolerate for an instant if it was Christian belief and practice.

IMHO either all religions are lightly introduced in public schools or none are, period.
Either or, nothing else.

Also, no you're false in your post. Muslims do not believe that Sharia is innately the "word of God", only the Qur'an is. Sharia isn't even Sunnah lol :joycat:
 
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EsonauticSage

Between extremes
How much emphasis is the teacher going to place on the nature and role of Islamic law for example?

Such as how to wash your face, how to cook food, etc? "Islamic law" (Sharia - an equivalent of both Torah and Dharma) is not a "law" as in government laws, Sharia means the path or way of life, how one conducts themselves.
 

EsonauticSage

Between extremes
God knows what they'd do if asked to teach about Islam.

Yes, at worst I would have to crash tackle that incompetent prejudiced teacher. At best, I would be complaining to the school for giving my kids poor information on Islam (such as the political garbage people like to spout).
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, at worst I would have to crash tackle that incompetent prejudiced teacher. At best, I would be complaining to the school for giving my kids poor information on Islam (such as the political garbage people like to spout).

I wasn't even considering prejudiced, to be honest. I'm an ex-teacher in Australia (primary) and most of the people I worked with would at least try to be fair.

I was just thinking ignorant. To be clear, I'd put myself in that bucket, and I daresay I know more than the 'average' teacher just because of my general interest in religion.

But yes, there could be other issues too.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
My question was "Do you oppose teaching about religion in schools?"
You didn't answer.

Personally, I think religion should be taught about. It's a major factor in the human situation.

Here where I live, the problem is Christians. If the school doesn't teach what their denomination or belief system teaches, they don't want kids to be taught anything at all. It's Christians who object to teaching kids about religion, not atheists or Hindus or whatever.

So, I'm asking you again. Do you think schools should teach kids about religion?
Tom

To best answer that question would require one to revisit the reason as to why schools are even there in the first place.

I don't think it's really a school's purpose to teach religious discourses or to educate about specific religions.

It's simply to teach people the requisite skills necessary to survive and make a living in a society. That really ought to be it.

There are other institutions to handle the spiritual and religious needs of those who are partial to it and why people focus on schools for these kind of things is rather mind-boggling.
 
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