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Bidding Farewell to the Leftist Label

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
It has been a while since I posted on RF. Between becoming a college senior (finally... after a roller-coaster ride of five years and changing majors), planning my graduation project, and making new friends and bonding with them, RF hasn't been my highest priority in the last few months.

I have lately been feeling the absence of expressing my thoughts freely here, however, especially since I often don't have this luxury offline. This will be about how I have come to feel about the political left—especially the American left, being that American politics has a lot of international exposure—and why distancing myself from the label has felt intellectually liberating.

And it hardly starts with the disputes and griping over issues that are quite often overblown and exploited by ideologues, from "cultural appropriation" and "white privilege" to blaming the "White Man" for the ills of the rest of the world and diluting the definition of terms like "Islamophobia" and "racist" so much that they have, in many cases, practically become slurs reserved for those who don't fit into a specific cultural and political box reminiscent of puritanical exclusivism.

You point out that immigration can carry risks if its laws are too lax? You're a xenophobe and/or a racist.

You point out that mainstream Islam has considerably worrisome tenets that need reform? You're an Islamophobe.

You express belief that not all cultures are equally respectable or progressive? You're a bigot.

You cite facts indicating that many of the Arab world's problems are internal and self-perpetuated rather than caused by colonialism or "white privilege"? You're a racist and possibly a sympathizer with white supremacism.

You don't share the above prejudices and express opposition to them? You're not "woke" (a term I have increasingly come to dislike and associate with tribalistic, self-validating identity politics) or "progressive."

These are just a few examples. Of course, many examples tend to be more subtle and, most dangerously, masquerade as championship of tolerance, pluralism, and acceptance, when in reality they serve to demonize the metaphorical Other and paint them as bigots and in some cases even quasi-nazis.

Several years ago when I left conservative religion, I found in secularism a unique, profoundly liberating sense of intellectual independence, compassion, and tolerance. I didn't leave conservative religion to instead replace it with groupthink that promotes appeals to emotion, reactionary and selective outrage, and mollycoddling minorities or putting them on a pedestal under the misguided assumption that this somehow makes one "progressive" or "liberal."

I realize that these issues don't encompass the entire left, but they have felt increasingly common and vocal in the last few years enough for me to distance myself from the label. As things stand, I find myself relating most to Arab secularists who vocally and uncompromisingly oppose political Islam, virtue-signalling identity politics, and open-door immigration due to the very real and anti-freedom risks that it carries.

So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left. I still oppose much of what the right wing stands for and don't consider myself a conservative, but this now applies to the left as well, albeit to a lesser extent. I just wish liberalism remained about things like support for LGBT rights, gender equality, and religious pluralism instead of becoming the mess that it is turning into today.

It's nice to be here again, by the way. I definitely needed to get this out there because I frequently hear news about political issues and controversies over things like "cultural appropriation" and find myself facepalming at what many people are trying to pass off as progressivism.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
It has been a while since I posted on RF. Between becoming a college senior (finally... after a roller-coaster ride of five years and changing majors), planning my graduation project, and making new friends and bonding with them, RF hasn't been my highest priority in the last few months.

I have lately been feeling the absence of expressing my thoughts freely here, however, especially since I often don't have this luxury offline. This will be about how I have come to feel about the political left—especially the American left, being that American politics has a lot of international exposure—and why distancing myself from the label has felt intellectually liberating.

And it hardly starts with the disputes and griping over issues that are quite often overblown and exploited by ideologues, from "cultural appropriation" and "white privilege" to blaming the "White Man" for the ills of the rest of the world and diluting the definition of terms like "Islamophobia" and "racist" so much that they have, in many cases, practically become slurs reserved for those who don't fit into a specific cultural and political box reminiscent of puritanical exclusivism.

You point out that immigration can carry risks if its laws are too lax? You're a xenophobe and/or a racist.

You point out that mainstream Islam has considerably worrisome tenets that need reform? You're an Islamophobe.

You express belief that not all cultures are equally respectable or progressive? You're a bigot.

You cite facts indicating that many of the Arab world's problems are internal and self-perpetuated rather than caused by colonialism or "white privilege"? You're a racist and possibly a sympathizer with white supremacism.

You don't share the above prejudices and express opposition to them? You're not "woke" (a term I have increasingly come to dislike and associate with tribalistic, self-validating identity politics) or "progressive."

These are just a few examples. Of course, many examples tend to be more subtle and, most dangerously, masquerade as championship of tolerance, pluralism, and acceptance, when in reality they serve to demonize the metaphorical Other and paint them as bigots and in some cases even quasi-nazis.

Several years ago when I left conservative religion, I found in secularism a unique, profoundly liberating sense of intellectual independence, compassion, and tolerance. I didn't leave conservative religion to instead replace it with groupthink that promotes appeals to emotion, reactionary and selective outrage, and mollycoddling minorities or putting them on a pedestal under the misguided assumption that this somehow makes one "progressive" or "liberal."

I realize that these issues don't encompass the entire left, but they have felt increasingly common and vocal in the last few years enough for me to distance myself from the label. As things stand, I find myself relating most to Arab secularists who vocally and uncompromisingly oppose political Islam, virtue-signalling identity politics, and open-door immigration due to the very real and anti-freedom risks that it carries.

So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left. I still oppose much of what the right wing stands for and don't consider myself a conservative, but this now applies to the left as well, albeit to a lesser extent. I just wish liberalism remained about things like support for LGBT rights, gender equality, and religious pluralism instead of becoming the mess that it is turning into today.

It's nice to be here again, by the way. I definitely needed to get this out there because I frequently hear news about political issues and controversies over things like "cultural appropriation" and find myself facepalming at what many people are trying to pass off as progressivism.
Sounds more like dissatisfaction with the Tribal Left, rather than Leftist thought,per se. And with good cause. Tribal identity politics, Left AND Right, are insanely toxic to anyone with a hint of rational thought in them. I'm in the middle of a similar personal crisis with the Tribal Right. I'm a dyed in the wool classical conservative, but the majority of "my side right or wrong, anyone who questions anything we do is a nation-hating socialist" self identified "conservatives", I wouldn't feed starving.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left.
You were never a "leftist", anyway, as no leftist ever called or considered themselves a "leftist" in America. And the fact that you use that term tells me that you never approved of "them" to begin with. I put the quotes around "them" because I believe you are referring to what is mostly a fiction created by and existing in the minds of people who needed a whole social segment to disapprove of, and feel superior to.
 
The left is evil! There the devil! They want to take over the world and destroy it.

The only good thing about them is they have good intentions, MAYBE, lol.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left. I still oppose much of what the right wing stands for and don't consider myself a conservative, but this now applies to the left as well, albeit to a lesser extent. I just wish liberalism remained about things like support for LGBT rights, gender equality, and religious pluralism instead of becoming the mess that it is turning into today.

You read my mind. These days I call myself a "classic liberal centrist".
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It has been a while since I posted on RF. Between becoming a college senior (finally... after a roller-coaster ride of five years and changing majors), planning my graduation project, and making new friends and bonding with them, RF hasn't been my highest priority in the last few months.

I have lately been feeling the absence of expressing my thoughts freely here, however, especially since I often don't have this luxury offline. This will be about how I have come to feel about the political left—especially the American left, being that American politics has a lot of international exposure—and why distancing myself from the label has felt intellectually liberating.

And it hardly starts with the disputes and griping over issues that are quite often overblown and exploited by ideologues, from "cultural appropriation" and "white privilege" to blaming the "White Man" for the ills of the rest of the world and diluting the definition of terms like "Islamophobia" and "racist" so much that they have, in many cases, practically become slurs reserved for those who don't fit into a specific cultural and political box reminiscent of puritanical exclusivism.

You point out that immigration can carry risks if its laws are too lax? You're a xenophobe and/or a racist.

You point out that mainstream Islam has considerably worrisome tenets that need reform? You're an Islamophobe.

You express belief that not all cultures are equally respectable or progressive? You're a bigot.

You cite facts indicating that many of the Arab world's problems are internal and self-perpetuated rather than caused by colonialism or "white privilege"? You're a racist and possibly a sympathizer with white supremacism.

You don't share the above prejudices and express opposition to them? You're not "woke" (a term I have increasingly come to dislike and associate with tribalistic, self-validating identity politics) or "progressive."

These are just a few examples. Of course, many examples tend to be more subtle and, most dangerously, masquerade as championship of tolerance, pluralism, and acceptance, when in reality they serve to demonize the metaphorical Other and paint them as bigots and in some cases even quasi-nazis.

Several years ago when I left conservative religion, I found in secularism a unique, profoundly liberating sense of intellectual independence, compassion, and tolerance. I didn't leave conservative religion to instead replace it with groupthink that promotes appeals to emotion, reactionary and selective outrage, and mollycoddling minorities or putting them on a pedestal under the misguided assumption that this somehow makes one "progressive" or "liberal."

I realize that these issues don't encompass the entire left, but they have felt increasingly common and vocal in the last few years enough for me to distance myself from the label. As things stand, I find myself relating most to Arab secularists who vocally and uncompromisingly oppose political Islam, virtue-signalling identity politics, and open-door immigration due to the very real and anti-freedom risks that it carries.

So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left. I still oppose much of what the right wing stands for and don't consider myself a conservative, but this now applies to the left as well, albeit to a lesser extent. I just wish liberalism remained about things like support for LGBT rights, gender equality, and religious pluralism instead of becoming the mess that it is turning into today.

It's nice to be here again, by the way. I definitely needed to get this out there because I frequently hear news about political issues and controversies over things like "cultural appropriation" and find myself facepalming at what many people are trying to pass off as progressivism.

Hey @Debater Slayer , glad to hear college is going well and your making good friends.:)

There is a profound and deep crisis in the centre-left politics of social liberalism as we no longer have positive visions of the future beyond “inclusiveness”. The success of the far-right/alt-right isn’t necessarily because their ideas are compelling, but because they have successfully poked holes in the “feel good” narratives of neo-liberal optimism (i.e. “leave everything to the market, celebrate the individual and their identity and everything will get better”). They’ve pointed out uncomfortable truths about the ineffectiveness of free markets and democracies in addressing popular concerns and have hijacked discontent to advance the interests of a different section of the ruling class over the “liberal” sections.

The far-left (revolutionary socialism, communism and anarchism) virtually doesn’t exist in the west as an organised political force. It has an online presence but nothing that translates in to votes or party membership or funding. You get the Bernie Sanders/Jeremy Corbyn types but only to channel dissent in to the existing institutions where people can’t do any damage.

Its as if the entire left wing has gone in to a complete melt down. They have no answers, no solutions- but simply promise a vague” better world” is one more election away. As much as I would want to believe something can be done- there is no clear path of reform to improve the western world. The Trump-style populists have won because the resistance is so poor, superficial and disorganised. There is no intellectual battle of ideas going on at all- and you can see it in the poverty of online debate and the name-calling you describe.

My best advice is focus on offline stuff that is productive and creative. Spend time with people you care about and things that will make you happy. I think its going to take decades for a left-wing revival to take place even with the best conditions. There are things worth fighting for but the bigger questions of “how” and “why” haven’t been answered. Thats going to take some really big historic thinkers and a very successful campaign to spread those ideas. The corruption of western thought in conspiracy theories, fake news, pseudo-intellectualism is simultaneously the destruction of the narrowness of the old ways of thinking and perhaps may clear away space for new thinking to take place. I can only hope. *fingers crossed* for dealing with the injustices we face now day to day- we what ever we can and we must because that was all we could ever do to begin with.

It may be more accurate to say that you didn’t leave the left; the “left” left you. You may still believe many of the same things in your heart, but its just that what the “left” nows stand for is so hollow and shallow, that it is utterly insecure and has to accuse everyone else of being a “fascist” to black out just how dark, strange and complex reality has become. It presents a front of moral simplicity at the expense of truth and knowledge.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
It has been a while since I posted on RF. Between becoming a college senior (finally... after a roller-coaster ride of five years and changing majors), planning my graduation project, and making new friends and bonding with them, RF hasn't been my highest priority in the last few months.

I have lately been feeling the absence of expressing my thoughts freely here, however, especially since I often don't have this luxury offline. This will be about how I have come to feel about the political left—especially the American left, being that American politics has a lot of international exposure—and why distancing myself from the label has felt intellectually liberating.

And it hardly starts with the disputes and griping over issues that are quite often overblown and exploited by ideologues, from "cultural appropriation" and "white privilege" to blaming the "White Man" for the ills of the rest of the world and diluting the definition of terms like "Islamophobia" and "racist" so much that they have, in many cases, practically become slurs reserved for those who don't fit into a specific cultural and political box reminiscent of puritanical exclusivism.

You point out that immigration can carry risks if its laws are too lax? You're a xenophobe and/or a racist.

You point out that mainstream Islam has considerably worrisome tenets that need reform? You're an Islamophobe.

You express belief that not all cultures are equally respectable or progressive? You're a bigot.

You cite facts indicating that many of the Arab world's problems are internal and self-perpetuated rather than caused by colonialism or "white privilege"? You're a racist and possibly a sympathizer with white supremacism.

You don't share the above prejudices and express opposition to them? You're not "woke" (a term I have increasingly come to dislike and associate with tribalistic, self-validating identity politics) or "progressive."

These are just a few examples. Of course, many examples tend to be more subtle and, most dangerously, masquerade as championship of tolerance, pluralism, and acceptance, when in reality they serve to demonize the metaphorical Other and paint them as bigots and in some cases even quasi-nazis.

Several years ago when I left conservative religion, I found in secularism a unique, profoundly liberating sense of intellectual independence, compassion, and tolerance. I didn't leave conservative religion to instead replace it with groupthink that promotes appeals to emotion, reactionary and selective outrage, and mollycoddling minorities or putting them on a pedestal under the misguided assumption that this somehow makes one "progressive" or "liberal."

I realize that these issues don't encompass the entire left, but they have felt increasingly common and vocal in the last few years enough for me to distance myself from the label. As things stand, I find myself relating most to Arab secularists who vocally and uncompromisingly oppose political Islam, virtue-signalling identity politics, and open-door immigration due to the very real and anti-freedom risks that it carries.

So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left. I still oppose much of what the right wing stands for and don't consider myself a conservative, but this now applies to the left as well, albeit to a lesser extent. I just wish liberalism remained about things like support for LGBT rights, gender equality, and religious pluralism instead of becoming the mess that it is turning into today.

It's nice to be here again, by the way. I definitely needed to get this out there because I frequently hear news about political issues and controversies over things like "cultural appropriation" and find myself facepalming at what many people are trying to pass off as progressivism.

I appreciate the meaningful expression. I wish people would do this more often.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I àgree with what you've said, @Debater Slayer, but what you've described I would say represents fringe "SJW" types rather than the average liberal. You can still value rights, freedom, equality, and justice without the sanctimonious double standards of "SJWers."

As you've observed it's ironically a lot like religious fundamentalism in many regards.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
You basically summed up why I have no issues or qualms "beating up" on Liberals and enjoying their tears like a fine wine. My issue is that very few seem to realize Conservatives and Liberals actually don't make up the majority of either side or the country. Most of America is Centrist/Moderate. Everyone hates the PC snowflakes, be they Left or Right (don't forget, they love to promote censorship and silencing things they don't agree with either, especially if they view as a slight against their religion). I'll "trigger" them if they protest, I'll let my Irish stubbornness become an immovable object in their way, and I have went as far to call them racist when they judge by skin color rather than character. They've called me mean, called me a Conservative (or "godless Liberal" if the "insult" is coming from a Conservative), but whatever they call me, it really goes to show just how incredibly thin their skin is and why they just aren't worth anyone's time.
And congrats on school!!!
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It has been a while since I posted on RF. Between becoming a college senior (finally... after a roller-coaster ride of five years and changing majors), planning my graduation project, and making new friends and bonding with them, RF hasn't been my highest priority in the last few months.

I have lately been feeling the absence of expressing my thoughts freely here, however, especially since I often don't have this luxury offline. This will be about how I have come to feel about the political left—especially the American left, being that American politics has a lot of international exposure—and why distancing myself from the label has felt intellectually liberating.

And it hardly starts with the disputes and griping over issues that are quite often overblown and exploited by ideologues, from "cultural appropriation" and "white privilege" to blaming the "White Man" for the ills of the rest of the world and diluting the definition of terms like "Islamophobia" and "racist" so much that they have, in many cases, practically become slurs reserved for those who don't fit into a specific cultural and political box reminiscent of puritanical exclusivism.

You point out that immigration can carry risks if its laws are too lax? You're a xenophobe and/or a racist.

You point out that mainstream Islam has considerably worrisome tenets that need reform? You're an Islamophobe.

You express belief that not all cultures are equally respectable or progressive? You're a bigot.

You cite facts indicating that many of the Arab world's problems are internal and self-perpetuated rather than caused by colonialism or "white privilege"? You're a racist and possibly a sympathizer with white supremacism.

You don't share the above prejudices and express opposition to them? You're not "woke" (a term I have increasingly come to dislike and associate with tribalistic, self-validating identity politics) or "progressive."

These are just a few examples. Of course, many examples tend to be more subtle and, most dangerously, masquerade as championship of tolerance, pluralism, and acceptance, when in reality they serve to demonize the metaphorical Other and paint them as bigots and in some cases even quasi-nazis.

Several years ago when I left conservative religion, I found in secularism a unique, profoundly liberating sense of intellectual independence, compassion, and tolerance. I didn't leave conservative religion to instead replace it with groupthink that promotes appeals to emotion, reactionary and selective outrage, and mollycoddling minorities or putting them on a pedestal under the misguided assumption that this somehow makes one "progressive" or "liberal."

I realize that these issues don't encompass the entire left, but they have felt increasingly common and vocal in the last few years enough for me to distance myself from the label. As things stand, I find myself relating most to Arab secularists who vocally and uncompromisingly oppose political Islam, virtue-signalling identity politics, and open-door immigration due to the very real and anti-freedom risks that it carries.

So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left. I still oppose much of what the right wing stands for and don't consider myself a conservative, but this now applies to the left as well, albeit to a lesser extent. I just wish liberalism remained about things like support for LGBT rights, gender equality, and religious pluralism instead of becoming the mess that it is turning into today.

It's nice to be here again, by the way. I definitely needed to get this out there because I frequently hear news about political issues and controversies over things like "cultural appropriation" and find myself facepalming at what many people are trying to pass off as progressivism.
To get to decide what position you take on any issue
without the necessity of tribal conformance is wonderful.
And even if you do eventually settle down into a tribe,
it's good to disagree at times.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Maybe now I'll create a sock puppet named "Debater Player", and infiltrate the Liberal Only religious forum.
Tom
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Well, DS, I see you have discovered that no sizable group of humans is without its lunatic fringe. Fringes are always noisy and appear larger than they really are, of course. But I'm with you on most of your points.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It has been a while since I posted on RF. Between becoming a college senior (finally... after a roller-coaster ride of five years and changing majors), planning my graduation project, and making new friends and bonding with them, RF hasn't been my highest priority in the last few months.

I have lately been feeling the absence of expressing my thoughts freely here, however, especially since I often don't have this luxury offline. This will be about how I have come to feel about the political left—especially the American left, being that American politics has a lot of international exposure—and why distancing myself from the label has felt intellectually liberating.

And it hardly starts with the disputes and griping over issues that are quite often overblown and exploited by ideologues, from "cultural appropriation" and "white privilege" to blaming the "White Man" for the ills of the rest of the world and diluting the definition of terms like "Islamophobia" and "racist" so much that they have, in many cases, practically become slurs reserved for those who don't fit into a specific cultural and political box reminiscent of puritanical exclusivism.

You point out that immigration can carry risks if its laws are too lax? You're a xenophobe and/or a racist.

You point out that mainstream Islam has considerably worrisome tenets that need reform? You're an Islamophobe.

You express belief that not all cultures are equally respectable or progressive? You're a bigot.

You cite facts indicating that many of the Arab world's problems are internal and self-perpetuated rather than caused by colonialism or "white privilege"? You're a racist and possibly a sympathizer with white supremacism.

You don't share the above prejudices and express opposition to them? You're not "woke" (a term I have increasingly come to dislike and associate with tribalistic, self-validating identity politics) or "progressive."

These are just a few examples. Of course, many examples tend to be more subtle and, most dangerously, masquerade as championship of tolerance, pluralism, and acceptance, when in reality they serve to demonize the metaphorical Other and paint them as bigots and in some cases even quasi-nazis.

Several years ago when I left conservative religion, I found in secularism a unique, profoundly liberating sense of intellectual independence, compassion, and tolerance. I didn't leave conservative religion to instead replace it with groupthink that promotes appeals to emotion, reactionary and selective outrage, and mollycoddling minorities or putting them on a pedestal under the misguided assumption that this somehow makes one "progressive" or "liberal."

I realize that these issues don't encompass the entire left, but they have felt increasingly common and vocal in the last few years enough for me to distance myself from the label. As things stand, I find myself relating most to Arab secularists who vocally and uncompromisingly oppose political Islam, virtue-signalling identity politics, and open-door immigration due to the very real and anti-freedom risks that it carries.

So, for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself identifying with the left. I still oppose much of what the right wing stands for and don't consider myself a conservative, but this now applies to the left as well, albeit to a lesser extent. I just wish liberalism remained about things like support for LGBT rights, gender equality, and religious pluralism instead of becoming the mess that it is turning into today.

It's nice to be here again, by the way. I definitely needed to get this out there because I frequently hear news about political issues and controversies over things like "cultural appropriation" and find myself facepalming at what many people are trying to pass off as progressivism.
Politics and religion go hand-in-hand. I understand why would be so liberating to get away from it. One can only take so much Bushido before needing a break between rounds*. Whew! :0)



Anyways, best wishes for your success academically and in life. Sounds like you worked hard for it. I have a lot of respect for self made people.

*While I certainly enjoy the intense fiery debates and swinging my Bushido sword through all the blood and guts that would make a Viking squeal with glee, I still prefer my zafu, some incense, and spend some quiet time with the universe as I stay silent.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
You were never a "leftist", anyway, as no leftist ever called or considered themselves a "leftist" in America. And the fact that you use that term tells me that you never approved of "them" to begin with. I put the quotes around "them" because I believe you are referring to what is mostly a fiction created by and existing in the minds of people who needed a whole social segment to disapprove of, and feel superior to.

I shall forever be thankful for your mind-reading post, because I would be lost and not aware of my own beliefs without your blazingly insightful feedback.

If you think the tribalistic politics I mentioned in the OP is a fiction, you either need to keep up to date more or you're a supporter of it and as such don't see an issue with it. Either way, your assumptions are simply off base, and I'm neither interested nor able to debate them in the Journals forum anyway.
 
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Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I àgree with what you've said, @Debater Slayer, but what you've described I would say represents fringe "SJW" types rather than the average liberal. You can still value rights, freedom, equality, and justice without the sanctimonious double standards of "SJWers."

As you've observed it's ironically a lot like religious fundamentalism in many regards.

I definitely hope the average liberal doesn't become remotely like that; I get the impression this toxic brand of "liberalism" I mentioned may be growing in prevalence. Hopefully it dies down soon enough.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I definitely hope the average liberal doesn't become remotely like that; I get the impression this toxic brand of "liberalism" I mentioned may be growing in prevalence. Hopefully it dies down soon enough.

I think both the left and the right have grown to their most toxic levels since the last election due to a sort of pendulum effect.
 
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