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Bibliolatry

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
There are many apparent contradictions that when examined have explanations.
I have heard this many times, but none of the attempts I have seen is very convincing and often riddled with flaws. Many attempts are rationalization at best.

It does not matter to me. I am not using the Bible as a history book or a science book, so it can have flaws and still have no impact on whether I believe or not. The fact that there is no evidence to support the story of Noah and a global flood has never changed the fact that I accept Christ.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I have heard this many times, but none of the attempts I have seen is very convincing and often riddled with flaws. Many attempts are rationalization at best.

It does not matter to me. I am not using the Bible as a history book or a science book, so it can have flaws and still have no impact on whether I believe or not. The fact that there is no evidence to support the story of Noah and a global flood has never changed the fact that I accept Christ.

Yet Christ believed in the story of Noah.... so how do you reconcile that as you claim to believe in Christ? Similarly the writer of Hebrews believed in Noah as did Peter
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
i think anything can be used in worship. I remember the rod of Moses that was used to heal those who were bitten by serpents which later had to be destroyed because it was worshipped.

However, since it does have the words that were recorded that God said, it does help build relationships as much as my letters to and fro from my wife to be (years ago) were used to build relationship.
Certainly, I would agree. It does not require that it be perfect in every word that is recorded, so long as the message is conveyed to establish a relationship.

Would a recognition of Adam and Eve as merely representative and not as actual people mean that the whole Bible was useless and in need of being discarded? I see no reason why that should be the case.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Certainly, I would agree. It does not require that it be perfect in every word that is recorded, so long as the message is conveyed to establish a relationship.

Would a recognition of Adam and Eve as merely representative and not as actual people mean that the whole Bible was useless and in need of being discarded? I see no reason why that should be the case.

On the subject of Adam and Eve, Jesus and Paul the accounts as does the book of Job

In Romans as the late Francis Shaeffer pointed out there is a time line starting with Adam ending with Jesus and the timeline is also suggested in Luke. The timeline ends with a real Jesus hence supports Adam as a real person. would not make sense to start in fiction and end in reality
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Yet Christ believed in the story of Noah.... so how do you reconcile that as you claim to believe in Christ? Similarly the writer of Hebrews believed in Noah as did Peter
Christ mentioned the story of Noah. What you think he thought are your own ideas. Christ was aware of the mythology of the people he preached to. He would know the value of the story, real or not. Using it would not be a lie. It would be reciting a parable to teach a lesson.

Not to get into the debate again, but there simply is no evidence that the Earth was flooded anytime in the last 20,000,000 years. But perhaps you think, knowing this, I should discard this knowledge and lie to myself, just to fit a certain view of Christianity?
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
I can only state how I see it and that is just because it's said to be the word of God doesn't make it so.Unless you were there when God spoke from Heaven and you heard him yourself,can you really be 100% sure he said what's in those pages. or 100% sure that the scriptures are written from facts not fiction? I don't see how you can be sure. None of us were there to witness the accounts mentioned in the scriptures. The bible is a book that has been taught and preached for generations and generations and we are suppose to believe in it as "The Truth" we are to live by and that's that. To not believe in it or question it ,is a fast ticket to damnation.Please understand I believe in The Creator and in his love and peace and guidance for the good of life here on earth. I just don't believe in living according to words in a book that no one seems to be able to really prove is so.I feel we all have the knowledge and power "Our Creator" gave us to use and live by here on earth, I feel we don't need written instructions or stories from written word that supposedly happened billions of years ago to live life successfully and whole.This is just my opinion.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Come again. You will have to fix this or rephrase it. I do not understand.

Fix what? Jesus references Adam and Eve in the gospels regarding his discussion on marriage. Paul references Adam regarding death entering the world and Eve's role in original sin. Hebrews speaks of the blood of Jesus better than the blood of Abel

The New Testament writers clearly believed all those accounts. And Job (Old Testament) mentions 'if I had hid my sin like Adam ....."

One significant point if Jesus believed it and even taught the Old Testament after rising from the dead on the Emaus Road, I will believe it as well.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I can only state how I see it and that is just because it's said to be the word of God doesn't make it so.Unless you were there when God spoke from Heaven and you heard him yourself,can you really be 100% sure he said what's in those pages. or 100% sure that the scriptures are written from facts not fiction? I don't see how you can be sure. None of us were there to witness the accounts mentioned in the scriptures. The bible is a book that has been taught and preached for generations and generations and we are suppose to believe in it as "The Truth" we are to live by and that's that. To not believe in it or question it ,is a fast ticket to damnation.Please understand I believe in The Creator and in his love and peace and guidance for the good of life here on earth. I just don't believe in living according to words in a book that no one seems to be able to really prove is so.I feel we all have the knowledge and power "Our Creator" gave us to use and live by here on earth, I feel we don't need written instructions or stories from written word that supposedly happened billions of years ago to live life successfully and whole.This is just my opinion.
For me, it is the message that is important and not whether everything written there really happened as it is written. By careful analysis and deep understanding, there are many things that could not have occurred in the manner described, yet the message remains whole and understandable.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
For me, it is the message that is important and not whether everything written there really happened as it is written. By careful analysis and deep understanding, there are many things that could not have occurred in the manner described, yet the message remains whole and understandable.

What message do you get from
-the universe created by a god?
-man being created by a god?
-a great flood caused by the same god killing most of mankind?
-a talking snake and donkey?
Most of the bible doesn't make since at all unless you believe in myths and god's.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
For me, it is the message that is important and not whether everything written there really happened as it is written. By careful analysis and deep understanding, there are many things that could not have occurred in the manner described, yet the message remains whole and understandable.

Part of the message of Jesus, Paul and Peter would be they believed the accounts of Adam, Eve and Noah

There is also a message of there seriousness of mankind facing a sin crisis and a need for redemption to 'come home' It's been the message all along
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Fix what? Jesus references Adam and Eve in the gospels regarding his discussion on marriage. Paul references Adam regarding death entering the world and Eve's role in original sin. Hebrews speaks of the blood of Jesus better than the blood of Abel

The New Testament writers clearly believed all those accounts. And Job (Old Testament) mentions 'if I had hid my sin like Adam ....."

One significant point if Jesus believed it and even taught the Old Testament after rising from the dead on the Emaus Road, I will believe it as well.
You did not see this sentence as a little incomprehensible and missing something that would clarify it?

"On the subject of Adam and Eve, Jesus and Paul the accounts as does the book of Job".

Believe whatever you wish. It is not my place to stop you. It is your choice. We have the right to believe as we choose. A right I support.

It is only when you start demanding others to do it your way, and you remove your ideas from the realm of belief, that it becomes an issue. It is there that the burden of proof falls on you and no one has to accept your version as the version, just on your say so.

I believe that people that do as you claim you are doing are turning the Bible into a false idol. I choose not to do that. I see no reason to do it. This does not mean that I do not accept Christ or follow His teaching.

The demand that Christians follow the Bible literally only came into popularity a couple of hundred years ago. For 1800 years, people were fine recognizing it as allegory and the basis of theology. Do you think all those Christians are now burning in Hell?
 
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Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Part of the message of Jesus, Paul and Peter would be they believed the accounts of Adam, Eve and Noah

There is also a message of there seriousness of mankind facing a sin crisis and a need for redemption to 'come home' It's been the message all along
I do not see belief in them as relevant to accepting Christ or being a Christian. I do not believe those stories were literally true and infallible accounts of historical events. My belief does not hinge on the veracity of those stories and the fact that they cannot be established by any evidence and are contradicted by evidence has had no impact on my belief. Establishing a need that they be true would have left my belief vulnerable and thankfully, it is not.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Part of the message of Jesus, Paul and Peter would be they believed the accounts of Adam, Eve and Noah

There is also a message of there seriousness of mankind facing a sin crisis and a need for redemption to 'come home' It's been the message all along
Neither your way of believing, nor mine, contradicts the fact that the Bible is as vulnerable to being turned into a false idol as any object.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Neither your way of believing, nor mine, contradicts the fact that the Bible is as vulnerable to being turned into a false idol as any object.

How can the bible be used as a false idol? A person has to have faith in bible and believe that it is correct before they can have faith, believe and worship the god it speaks of.
No bible equals no creator God.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
How can the bible be used as a false idol? A person has to have faith in bible and believe that it is correct before they can have faith, believe and worship the god it speaks of.
No bible equals no creator God.


I think Biblalotry is often a claim by someone with a far weaker view of the Bible that Jesus, Moses or Apostles.... basically weaker than the writers of the Bible who had a high view
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Neither your way of believing, nor mine, contradicts the fact that the Bible is as vulnerable to being turned into a false idol as any object.

People are idol factories no doubt about that.
But 'God has spoken' and should be listened to appropriately
Appropriate includes believing the Bible as claimed in the sense of the literature, which I believe is in a high view
 
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