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Featured Bibliolatry

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Fool

    Fool Well-Known Member
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    Is bibliolatry a problem with the torah, bible, qu'ran, vedas, and/or other supposedly holy books?
     
  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Depends on who you're talking about, doesn't it? That is, I think the problem is with people, not with books per se.
     
  3. PureX

    PureX Well-Known Member

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    The problem is an obsession with righteousness.

    What is really being idolized is the idea of our own absolute righteousness, as it's conferred upon us by our unquestioned belief in our magically inerrant scriptures. (Giving us magically inerrant interpretations of God's mind and will, of course.) This sort of idolatry springs from a pathological need to be 'right' born in a desperate fear of being 'wrong'.

    That's my theory.
     
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  4. wizanda

    wizanda Hairy doesn't mean scary;beard doesn't mean weird
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    It is worse than that, it started as that within the time of 'the book'... We didn't used to have books...

    Then now we have people pointing at the finger print of the person pointing at the moon. Where if you don't know the traditions, about the finger prints of the person pointing at the moon, in a book about people's experiences of it; you're automatically wrong about knowing what the moon could be. - They worship their own method.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Bibliolatry is not a very usable concept, because the literal interpretation of the bible, or an unreasonable devotion to any spiritual literature of other literature devotion is an anecdotal accusation and not an objective way to evaluate one's view of the interpretation of scripture.

    It is classically a rock word to throw at others who believe differently and no one would admit Bibliolatry.

    Without using 'rock' words I can describe the varying views of a literal Bible, and challenge these views in a logical reasonably way in dialogue, though I an offended by those unethically claiming to be atheists or agnostics, and arguing for the Theist view of Intelligent Design. A straight forward view of a theist believing in a degree of literacy of the Bible to explain Creation from that perspective alone is more honest
     
    #5 shunyadragon, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  6. 74x12

    74x12 Active Member

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    Jesus told the scribes of His day "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

    You see they missed the whole point of the scriptures. They pointed to the true eternal Life: Jesus. This the scribes did not see. It is not ink and paper that saves us. It's the holy Spirit. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Jesus is the Life that was manifest which proceeded from the Father.

    1 John 1:1-2
    That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we saw, and our hands touched, concerning the Word of life 2 (and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda Hairy doesn't mean scary;beard doesn't mean weird
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    When people think that the Word of God is a book; then that misses the point of scripture.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  8. savagewind

    savagewind Something, not nothing
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    OK


    :DI think bibliolatry in this respect means to depend on the words to lead a person, whether a person views it literally or otherwise. It means to trust in it. My opinion is that to trust in anything other than The Lord at the level of righteousness might be idolatry. Trust is OK, imo. I trust @Revoltingest, @'mud, @sunrise123, myself, and others, but not to be led by them. Ultimate trust is to ONE alone. In my opinion.
     
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  9. 74x12

    74x12 Active Member

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    I believe Jesus defines the Word of God when He answered satan "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God shall man live".
     
  10. osgart

    osgart Active Member

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    Well I practice wrongeousness as a form of righteousness. If my wrongs are truly wrong, than I'll at least get somewhere right if I appreciate my wrongs.

    I agree that the expectation of absolute right in every action is an absolute dead end. I know such people, and they are the most miserable, and most demanding, in totally impractical ways, and they are too blind to see it. You could do 20 things right for them, and they will only see 1 thing you did wrong, and look for more wrongs. And they act as if those 20 things did very little, and reason the smallness of my actions.

    They have a Godstick a mile long. And it ain't right, no pun intended.
     
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  11. wizanda

    wizanda Hairy doesn't mean scary;beard doesn't mean weird
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    For God makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust. Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them... and clothes the grass of the field.

    ^Word^

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
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  12. PureX

    PureX Well-Known Member

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    ... And then declare the results of their worship absolute and sacrosanct. Which is the motive (and payoff) behind the bibliolatry, in my opinion.
     
    #12 PureX, Feb 11, 2018
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  13. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    No one usually admits to being a serial killer either, but they exist. :p

    If ink and paper don't save, then why read the bible at all?

    To me, bibliolatry isn't just viewing the bible as accurate or historical or literal or sacred. No, when I've seen posts that say that God can't do anything that disagrees with the bible, THAT is bibliolatry. When I've seen people tell me that if God told them specifically that the bible was untrue they'd believe the bible, THAT is idolatry, for the actual deity has been turned into the slave of some book.
     
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  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Religions do not believe that the ink and paper saves. It is the message behind ink and paper whether right or wrong,
    Not an accurate view of how believers believe in God or whatever,
     
  15. PureX

    PureX Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the bar is not set quite that high. To make an idol of scripture is to conflate the object with the god: that is to presume the words are God's words, and to treat them as such.

    And the even greater flaw of this practice is that all language requires personal interpretation. So that what is actually being idolized as God, is really our own interpretation of the words we are reading. "Bibliolatry", therefor, is a form of theistic self-idolization. It turns our personal understanding of God (through the text) into God, Itself!
     
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  16. 74x12

    74x12 Active Member

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    The Bible says this about Itself: "for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." The Written Letter is there to point you to the holy Spirit. As Stephen the martyr said to them in those days "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." They killed him for saying that.

    The Word of Life is not a physical book. It's Jesus the Spirit. The Father wants worshipers who worship in Spirit and in truth. Not by doctrines of men based off of their own misunderstandings and misconceptions of spiritual writings. In the old Covenant their Covenant was the Letter. The written Law of Moses. In the new Covenant our Covenant is not written down it is the "Perfect Law of Liberty" That is not expressible in human language because He is the Spirit of God. The Perfect Law is liberating because He is a Spirit and not written down. He gives LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY than the written Law of Moses. He IS the source of the Law, The Source of all the holy scriptures in the Bible.

    That is what the scriptures are about to point us to Him who can save us. This scripture that Jesus spoke saying that the scriptures speak about HIM are still just as true today. Jesus also said Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God shall man live. Yet too many ignore what the scriptures actually say for themselves and about Him.
     
    #16 74x12, Feb 11, 2018
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  17. savagewind

    savagewind Something, not nothing
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    Some people really do know Jesus only by what is written about him. John 5:46 If that is the way they believe God wants it, then they are putting the written word before The Spirit of God. It is a sin. In my opinion.
     
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  18. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    They say they don't. Then they go ahead and tell me I need to read the bible anyway to understand God. I already have a relationship with God. What do I need a book for?

    I have been told, especially the messiahs on the internet, by Christians who said that if God told them the bible was a lie, they'd go with the bible. I have seen posts even on this site who believe that God cannot contradict the bible.

    But why does the Holy Spirit need it?

    The test for a false prophet is to be wrong about things. The bible is wrong about things. Now what?
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Active Member

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    He doesn't. We do.

    That's your opinion. I must disagree ...
     
  20. savagewind

    savagewind Something, not nothing
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    I am sure that some of the Bible is wrongly translated but perhaps wrong is right. The reason? It is a reason for 'getting up' and searching for the One Who Knows. If it was all right like they say it is all right there wouldn't be such a strong incentive to seek the real message. Also, to find the real meaning makes souls know that they matter because they have been allowed to know and they come to know that God is real, is interested, is good, and is a great help really.
     
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